Always on the bubble...I call too much

First off, just want to say thanks for help with evaluating hands. When you get beat on a certain hand, you think about it for days (weeks, months,...).

Late tourney, pretty tight. Had raised a couple of great hands pre-flop, only to steal the blinds. I think Bmannio had the same thinking, and that's why he limped.

I think I made a bad raise on the flop, and it steamrolled from there to a bad call on the all-in. I'm trying to work on my agression, but I don't think this was the right place, especially out of position. Any comments?


*********** # 70 **************
PokerStars Game #623997472: Tournament #2387744, Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) -
2004/08/18 - 00:28:13 (ET)
Table '2387744 1' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 2: jujubeast (3115 in chips)
Seat 3: Tommy Bones (3330 in chips)
Seat 7: MonsterXXX (1840 in chips)
Seat 9: Bmannio (5215 in chips)
jujubeast: posts small blind 100
Tommy Bones: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jujubeast [As Qd]
MonsterXXX: folds
Bmannio: calls 200
jujubeast: raises 200 to 400
Tommy Bones: folds
Bmannio: calls 200
*** FLOP *** [Qs 6c Kh]
jujubeast: bets 200
Bmannio: raises 200 to 400
jujubeast: raises 200 to 600
Bmannio: calls 200
*** TURN *** [Qs 6c Kh] [7c]
jujubeast: bets 600
Bmannio: calls 600
*** RIVER *** [Qs 6c Kh 7c] [Ac]
jujubeast: bets 400
Bmannio: raises 3215 to 3615 and is all-in
jujubeast: calls 1115 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Bmannio: shows [Ad Kd] (two pair, Aces and Kings)
jujubeast: shows [As Qd] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
Bmannio collected 6430 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6430 | Rake 0
Board [Qs 6c Kh 7c Ac]
Seat 2: jujubeast (small blind) showed [As Qd] and lost with two pair, Aces and Queens
Seat 3: Tommy Bones (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: MonsterXXX folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Bmannio (button) showed [Ad Kd] and won (6430) with two pair, Aces and Kings

I'd probably go out on a limb and say you played it pretty good In my opinion. You had a pretty decent starting hand, and threw in all your chips with a nice two pair on the river. I'd probably made the same moves, but I'd probably smooth call him trying to put him on a set on one of the low cards by how he limped in preflop.

I'd chalk it up to a tough beat, but you might want to focus more on opponents betting system, that can do nothing but help in calling/raising decents hands like this one.

Tough luck
:D
Billy

Thanks for the input. I raised on the flop because I thought that he thought that I was stealing the pot. After he flat called, I put him on a king. Then when my 2nd pair came I thought I had him, bet small to lure him in. I probably should have pushed all-in on the river.

I think you're right about the betting system. If I paid more attention to him in earlier hands, I could save/make more money. I just find it so hard to concentrate on the other players while playing online. So boring. And the drinking probably doesn't help either! :)

yeah I agree not much you could have done folding the flop is a little weak but AQ running into AK is just bad luck.

It is bad luck to run into it, and more bad luck at how he played it preflop, so it was hard to put him on AK. His limp and then call to your raise preflop would lead me to believe you had him.

But, at the flop, your reraise is bad, as you're likely beat, and you aren't getting much information out of him, nor giving him a chance to fold, as it was just 200 more for him to call. And you shouldn't be assuming a player raising your bet on the flop is trying to steal unless you've seen him doing this many times before. Leading at the pot is more likely to be a steal attempt than a raise, especially when its a minimum raise. A pure steal attempt would've had to raise you big at the flop to give you the opportunity to fold, unless he was sure you were stealing.

If you just called his raise at the flop and checked to him at the turn, you maybe could've gotten away when you were dominated, as it would've been obvious he had a K if he bet big. The reraise at the flop made you lead out on the turn (because of your bad position, which is another reason you shouldn't have reraised), and at the turn he's probably worrying you have two pair and just calls, or he really likes to slowplay beatable hands, which his preflop play kind of indicates already. Since you didn't get much information out of him, it was a tough decision on the river. The flop reraise is the main mistake, like you've said.

One other thing, though. Lets say he was trying to steal on the flop like you thought, but at least was doing it on a semibluff, which I'd assume would have to be the case if he's bluffing with a minimum raise. JT is the type of hand that could play it very similar, preflop it makes more sense than AK, the flop raise is an attempt to get a free card if he misses on the turn and disguise his hand if he hits, the turn is chasing with odds (didn't do the math, but he clearly at least has implied odds on his side, as the turn bet is about the size of the preflop and turn betting, and you're basically pot commited, so he could expect to take your stack if he hit), and at the river, he's hoping you had AK or AQ. A less likely scenario would be two clubs, that would also explain the call on the turn. It was a nasty river card, with the flush and straight draws both hitting. I think its possible to lay this hand down at the river if you know the player well enough (and if you had more chips - you basically pot commited yourself before the river). If he wouldn't go all in on a bluff, you'd know he has you, or at the very best its a split, and its less likely than AK since you have a Q. The river clearly helped him, or he was doing some risky slowplaying with a set on the flop, which also would've beat you.

I'm nitpicking though, I think you played it reasonably well. But a slight change of your play on the flop could've let you get away from the hand on the turn,.

Thanks for the input michael. I had similar thoughts, I just couldn't get them straight.

I'm thinking I should have bet harder on the flop and if raised, just folded, putting him on a king. Or I could do what I did, and just call his raise, check the turn, fold to a bet.

If I saw the river though, I'm sure I would have called, even if I thought he had a king. He quickly went over the top of me on the river and that sent me a signal that he wanted a call from me. As I was calling, I knew I was beat. I play somewhat tightly, and I think he saw this and wanted to use my own agression against me. Which is usually what happens.

Being out of position also hurt me. I could have check-raised, and if I was re-raised, folded there. If he called my raise on the flop, I think I would be in the same situation I was in before though. Not much information there.

Anyways, thanks for the feedback. It helps to have someone to discuss hands and plays with. I have some friends I play a weekly game with, but none of them are interested in discussing how to play certain hands. They only want to moan about their bad beat stories and how the calling station drew out on them again.