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ARCHIVE: Pocket Aces
pet
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Pocket Aces [post #1]
I think pocket Aces should almost never be slow-played in limit games. What percent of the time do you slow-play them in limit games?
Oct 31, 2003 at 05:51 PM Quote Print
ttanaka
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #2]
I agree, that pocket rockets should never be slow-played in a limit game. However, they can be slow-played in a no-limit game if the cards on the flop justify the play. I won a big pot just last night by slow-playing my Aces. I raised pre-flop (which is still a must), the flop came Ace, 5, 8 - no two of the same suite, no real straight potential either. So I checked. The turn card was another blank, so I checked again. I knew one of two players would make a stab at this pot. Sure enough, one of those players made a big bet, I raised over the top, he went all-in. I beat him w/ trip aces.
Oct 31, 2003 at 05:58 PM Quote Print
pet
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #3]
I agree, in no-limit games pocket rockets can be slow-played after the flop. However, it can be a dangerous strategy if used too often.
Nov 01, 2003 at 09:03 AM Quote Print
MagicMark
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #4]
I recently saw an essay at lowlimitholdem.com in which the suggested actions was to just call with A-A. Although, the advice might have been specific to a loose game in which many people always stayed in the pot. I could then see just calling if in a late position, but I agree with you that a raise in an early position is still the best action; as it might get someone out, and it makes the rest pay!
Nov 13, 2003 at 11:34 PM Quote Print
ttanaka
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #5]
I think in Limit or No-Limit low-stakes 10 person table, the best move, without a doubt, is to raise pre-flop - no matter what the position. If everyone stays in a pot, your AA will have a very difficult time holding up. Try it, take a deck, deal one hand w/ AA, and deal 9 other hands. Then deal the board. Your hand will probably lose. So, by raising a few good things happen:
1) Narrow the playing field! You're odds of winning go up.
2) You know you are winning at this point, so it's important to get as much money in that pot as soon as possible. Everyone else is chasing your hand. It's important that they pay for it.
The only time I would consider NOT raising pre-flop w/ AA, is in a head-to-head situation, specifically a tournament, where you have a chance to deceive your opponent into a bigger pot.
Nov 14, 2003 at 03:30 AM Quote Print
Joel
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #6]
That's a good point about getting the playing field down, I hadn't thought of it like that before.
Speaking of pocket aces, I saw a guy this weekend with pocket aces and another in the flop. He was facing a flush draw and an agressive better but he stuck it out and pulled that fourth ace on the river , With the other guy holding the ace high flush, it was needless to say a big pot . Thank god I wasn't along for the ride!
Nov 15, 2003 at 10:07 AM Quote Print
ttanaka
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #7]
Check this out:
I was playing at Commerce Casino here in Los Angeles yesterday, $2-4 Limit Texas Holdem. I'm at the small blind, holding J9 offsuit. 5 people limp in including myself.
Flop comes 9 9 3. I check, checks around to this lady (who I've noticed is a very weak player). She bets, I call, a couple others call (table is weak, loose, passive).
Turn comes - 7. I check, checks around to the lady, she bets and now I re-raise (on the big bet). Should be obvious at this point I have a 9. Everyone else folds, she calls.
River - 6. I open, she calls. She turns over AA. I beat her w/ J9.
Now, the important point here, if she had raised pre-flop, I wouldn't have even been in the hand and she would have won. And to make her situation worse, she couldn't let go of those Aces and called two extra bets that she didn't really have to.
Nov 15, 2003 at 08:23 PM Quote Print
Fnord
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #8]
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/People/mummert/poker/
According to thse guys AA, KK, JJ and TT hold up well in multi-pots. But you need to be aware that by potenitally letting others in cheap by calling the monster pairs from an early position you're raising the risk for a greater expected reward. However if someone else had pre-flop raised, her right call would be a re-raise.
IMHO, she played that hand well. She ended up betting against the 9 seeing the flop at good odds. After seeing the re-raise she went to showdown as cheaply as possible to hedge against the 9s (maybe she thought you were bluffing or had a weaker pocket pair.) Stait odds are 71.5% in her favor, then adjust by the likelyhood of someone betting with a 9 (A-10 are in a hand bet more often than a 9) I would only fold on the re-raise if I saw a tell, with so many players in there should have been a big enough pot to justify her calls after the re-raise on a limit table. Don't put too much value in one result, bad beats happen.
Dec 03, 2003 at 03:23 AM Print
Fnord
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #9]
Opps 2 errors...
"According to thse guys AA, KK, JJ and TT hold up well in multi-pots"
I forgot QQ, typo.
"Stait odds are 71.5% in her favor"
Redid the math with better numbers and it came out to 69.7% before adjusting for the likelyhood of a 9 being bet. Nitpicking, but wanted to put out the right number before someone called me on it.
(47 / 49) 0.95918367346938775510204081632653 *
(46 / 48) 0.95833333333333333333333333333333 *
(45 / 47) 0.95744680851063829787234042553191 *
(44 / 46) 0.95652173913043478260869565217391 *
(43 / 45) 0.95555555555555555555555555555556 *
(42 / 44) 0.95454545454545454545454545454545 *
(41 / 43) 0.95348837209302325581395348837209 *
(40 / 42) 0.95238095238095238095238095238095 =
0.69727891156462585034013605441831
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ARCHIVE: Pocket Aces
pet
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Pocket Aces [post #1]
I think pocket Aces should almost never be slow-played in limit games. What percent of the time do you slow-play them in limit games?
Oct 31, 2003 at 05:51 PM Quote Print
ttanaka
Status: Administrator
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #2]
I agree, that pocket rockets should never be slow-played in a limit game. However, they can be slow-played in a no-limit game if the cards on the flop justify the play. I won a big pot just last night by slow-playing my Aces. I raised pre-flop (which is still a must), the flop came Ace, 5, 8 - no two of the same suite, no real straight potential either. So I checked. The turn card was another blank, so I checked again. I knew one of two players would make a stab at this pot. Sure enough, one of those players made a big bet, I raised over the top, he went all-in. I beat him w/ trip aces.
Oct 31, 2003 at 05:58 PM Quote Print
pet
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #3]
I agree, in no-limit games pocket rockets can be slow-played after the flop. However, it can be a dangerous strategy if used too often.
Nov 01, 2003 at 09:03 AM Quote Print
MagicMark
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #4]
I recently saw an essay at lowlimitholdem.com in which the suggested actions was to just call with A-A. Although, the advice might have been specific to a loose game in which many people always stayed in the pot. I could then see just calling if in a late position, but I agree with you that a raise in an early position is still the best action; as it might get someone out, and it makes the rest pay!
Nov 13, 2003 at 11:34 PM Quote Print
ttanaka
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #5]
I think in Limit or No-Limit low-stakes 10 person table, the best move, without a doubt, is to raise pre-flop - no matter what the position. If everyone stays in a pot, your AA will have a very difficult time holding up. Try it, take a deck, deal one hand w/ AA, and deal 9 other hands. Then deal the board. Your hand will probably lose. So, by raising a few good things happen:
1) Narrow the playing field! You're odds of winning go up.
2) You know you are winning at this point, so it's important to get as much money in that pot as soon as possible. Everyone else is chasing your hand. It's important that they pay for it.
The only time I would consider NOT raising pre-flop w/ AA, is in a head-to-head situation, specifically a tournament, where you have a chance to deceive your opponent into a bigger pot.
Nov 14, 2003 at 03:30 AM Quote Print
Joel
Status: Jr. Member
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #6]
That's a good point about getting the playing field down, I hadn't thought of it like that before.
Speaking of pocket aces, I saw a guy this weekend with pocket aces and another in the flop. He was facing a flush draw and an agressive better but he stuck it out and pulled that fourth ace on the river , With the other guy holding the ace high flush, it was needless to say a big pot . Thank god I wasn't along for the ride!
Nov 15, 2003 at 10:07 AM Quote Print
ttanaka
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #7]
Check this out:
I was playing at Commerce Casino here in Los Angeles yesterday, $2-4 Limit Texas Holdem. I'm at the small blind, holding J9 offsuit. 5 people limp in including myself.
Flop comes 9 9 3. I check, checks around to this lady (who I've noticed is a very weak player). She bets, I call, a couple others call (table is weak, loose, passive).
Turn comes - 7. I check, checks around to the lady, she bets and now I re-raise (on the big bet). Should be obvious at this point I have a 9. Everyone else folds, she calls.
River - 6. I open, she calls. She turns over AA. I beat her w/ J9.
Now, the important point here, if she had raised pre-flop, I wouldn't have even been in the hand and she would have won. And to make her situation worse, she couldn't let go of those Aces and called two extra bets that she didn't really have to.
Nov 15, 2003 at 08:23 PM Quote Print
Fnord
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #8]
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/People/mummert/poker/
According to thse guys AA, KK, JJ and TT hold up well in multi-pots. But you need to be aware that by potenitally letting others in cheap by calling the monster pairs from an early position you're raising the risk for a greater expected reward. However if someone else had pre-flop raised, her right call would be a re-raise.
IMHO, she played that hand well. She ended up betting against the 9 seeing the flop at good odds. After seeing the re-raise she went to showdown as cheaply as possible to hedge against the 9s (maybe she thought you were bluffing or had a weaker pocket pair.) Stait odds are 71.5% in her favor, then adjust by the likelyhood of someone betting with a 9 (A-10 are in a hand bet more often than a 9) I would only fold on the re-raise if I saw a tell, with so many players in there should have been a big enough pot to justify her calls after the re-raise on a limit table. Don't put too much value in one result, bad beats happen.
Dec 03, 2003 at 03:23 AM Print
Fnord
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #9]
Opps 2 errors...
"According to thse guys AA, KK, JJ and TT hold up well in multi-pots"
I forgot QQ, typo.
"Stait odds are 71.5% in her favor"
Redid the math with better numbers and it came out to 69.7% before adjusting for the likelyhood of a 9 being bet. Nitpicking, but wanted to put out the right number before someone called me on it.
(47 / 49) 0.95918367346938775510204081632653 *
(46 / 48) 0.95833333333333333333333333333333 *
(45 / 47) 0.95744680851063829787234042553191 *
(44 / 46) 0.95652173913043478260869565217391 *
(43 / 45) 0.95555555555555555555555555555556 *
(42 / 44) 0.95454545454545454545454545454545 *
(41 / 43) 0.95348837209302325581395348837209 *
(40 / 42) 0.95238095238095238095238095238095 =
0.69727891156462585034013605441831
-
ARCHIVE: Pocket Aces
pet
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Pocket Aces [post #1]
I think pocket Aces should almost never be slow-played in limit games. What percent of the time do you slow-play them in limit games?
Oct 31, 2003 at 05:51 PM Quote Print
ttanaka
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #2]
I agree, that pocket rockets should never be slow-played in a limit game. However, they can be slow-played in a no-limit game if the cards on the flop justify the play. I won a big pot just last night by slow-playing my Aces. I raised pre-flop (which is still a must), the flop came Ace, 5, 8 - no two of the same suite, no real straight potential either. So I checked. The turn card was another blank, so I checked again. I knew one of two players would make a stab at this pot. Sure enough, one of those players made a big bet, I raised over the top, he went all-in. I beat him w/ trip aces.
Oct 31, 2003 at 05:58 PM Quote Print
pet
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #3]
I agree, in no-limit games pocket rockets can be slow-played after the flop. However, it can be a dangerous strategy if used too often.
Nov 01, 2003 at 09:03 AM Quote Print
MagicMark
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #4]
I recently saw an essay at lowlimitholdem.com in which the suggested actions was to just call with A-A. Although, the advice might have been specific to a loose game in which many people always stayed in the pot. I could then see just calling if in a late position, but I agree with you that a raise in an early position is still the best action; as it might get someone out, and it makes the rest pay!
Nov 13, 2003 at 11:34 PM Quote Print
ttanaka
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #5]
I think in Limit or No-Limit low-stakes 10 person table, the best move, without a doubt, is to raise pre-flop - no matter what the position. If everyone stays in a pot, your AA will have a very difficult time holding up. Try it, take a deck, deal one hand w/ AA, and deal 9 other hands. Then deal the board. Your hand will probably lose. So, by raising a few good things happen:
1) Narrow the playing field! You're odds of winning go up.
2) You know you are winning at this point, so it's important to get as much money in that pot as soon as possible. Everyone else is chasing your hand. It's important that they pay for it.
The only time I would consider NOT raising pre-flop w/ AA, is in a head-to-head situation, specifically a tournament, where you have a chance to deceive your opponent into a bigger pot.
Nov 14, 2003 at 03:30 AM Quote Print
Joel
Status: Jr. Member
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Registered: Nov 15, 2003
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #6]
That's a good point about getting the playing field down, I hadn't thought of it like that before.
Speaking of pocket aces, I saw a guy this weekend with pocket aces and another in the flop. He was facing a flush draw and an agressive better but he stuck it out and pulled that fourth ace on the river , With the other guy holding the ace high flush, it was needless to say a big pot . Thank god I wasn't along for the ride!
Nov 15, 2003 at 10:07 AM Quote Print
ttanaka
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #7]
Check this out:
I was playing at Commerce Casino here in Los Angeles yesterday, $2-4 Limit Texas Holdem. I'm at the small blind, holding J9 offsuit. 5 people limp in including myself.
Flop comes 9 9 3. I check, checks around to this lady (who I've noticed is a very weak player). She bets, I call, a couple others call (table is weak, loose, passive).
Turn comes - 7. I check, checks around to the lady, she bets and now I re-raise (on the big bet). Should be obvious at this point I have a 9. Everyone else folds, she calls.
River - 6. I open, she calls. She turns over AA. I beat her w/ J9.
Now, the important point here, if she had raised pre-flop, I wouldn't have even been in the hand and she would have won. And to make her situation worse, she couldn't let go of those Aces and called two extra bets that she didn't really have to.
Nov 15, 2003 at 08:23 PM Quote Print
Fnord
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #8]
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/People/mummert/poker/
According to thse guys AA, KK, JJ and TT hold up well in multi-pots. But you need to be aware that by potenitally letting others in cheap by calling the monster pairs from an early position you're raising the risk for a greater expected reward. However if someone else had pre-flop raised, her right call would be a re-raise.
IMHO, she played that hand well. She ended up betting against the 9 seeing the flop at good odds. After seeing the re-raise she went to showdown as cheaply as possible to hedge against the 9s (maybe she thought you were bluffing or had a weaker pocket pair.) Stait odds are 71.5% in her favor, then adjust by the likelyhood of someone betting with a 9 (A-10 are in a hand bet more often than a 9) I would only fold on the re-raise if I saw a tell, with so many players in there should have been a big enough pot to justify her calls after the re-raise on a limit table. Don't put too much value in one result, bad beats happen.
Dec 03, 2003 at 03:23 AM Print
Fnord
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #9]
Opps 2 errors...
"According to thse guys AA, KK, JJ and TT hold up well in multi-pots"
I forgot QQ, typo.
"Stait odds are 71.5% in her favor"
Redid the math with better numbers and it came out to 69.7% before adjusting for the likelyhood of a 9 being bet. Nitpicking, but wanted to put out the right number before someone called me on it.
(47 / 49) 0.95918367346938775510204081632653 *
(46 / 48) 0.95833333333333333333333333333333 *
(45 / 47) 0.95744680851063829787234042553191 *
(44 / 46) 0.95652173913043478260869565217391 *
(43 / 45) 0.95555555555555555555555555555556 *
(42 / 44) 0.95454545454545454545454545454545 *
(41 / 43) 0.95348837209302325581395348837209 *
(40 / 42) 0.95238095238095238095238095238095 =
0.69727891156462585034013605441831
-
ARCHIVE: Pocket Aces
pet
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Pocket Aces [post #1]
I think pocket Aces should almost never be slow-played in limit games. What percent of the time do you slow-play them in limit games?
Oct 31, 2003 at 05:51 PM Quote Print
ttanaka
Status: Administrator
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #2]
I agree, that pocket rockets should never be slow-played in a limit game. However, they can be slow-played in a no-limit game if the cards on the flop justify the play. I won a big pot just last night by slow-playing my Aces. I raised pre-flop (which is still a must), the flop came Ace, 5, 8 - no two of the same suite, no real straight potential either. So I checked. The turn card was another blank, so I checked again. I knew one of two players would make a stab at this pot. Sure enough, one of those players made a big bet, I raised over the top, he went all-in. I beat him w/ trip aces.
Oct 31, 2003 at 05:58 PM Quote Print
pet
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #3]
I agree, in no-limit games pocket rockets can be slow-played after the flop. However, it can be a dangerous strategy if used too often.
Nov 01, 2003 at 09:03 AM Quote Print
MagicMark
Status: Jr. Member
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #4]
I recently saw an essay at lowlimitholdem.com in which the suggested actions was to just call with A-A. Although, the advice might have been specific to a loose game in which many people always stayed in the pot. I could then see just calling if in a late position, but I agree with you that a raise in an early position is still the best action; as it might get someone out, and it makes the rest pay!
Nov 13, 2003 at 11:34 PM Quote Print
ttanaka
Status: Administrator
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Registered: Oct 31, 2003
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #5]
I think in Limit or No-Limit low-stakes 10 person table, the best move, without a doubt, is to raise pre-flop - no matter what the position. If everyone stays in a pot, your AA will have a very difficult time holding up. Try it, take a deck, deal one hand w/ AA, and deal 9 other hands. Then deal the board. Your hand will probably lose. So, by raising a few good things happen:
1) Narrow the playing field! You're odds of winning go up.
2) You know you are winning at this point, so it's important to get as much money in that pot as soon as possible. Everyone else is chasing your hand. It's important that they pay for it.
The only time I would consider NOT raising pre-flop w/ AA, is in a head-to-head situation, specifically a tournament, where you have a chance to deceive your opponent into a bigger pot.
Nov 14, 2003 at 03:30 AM Quote Print
Joel
Status: Jr. Member
Posts: 2
Registered: Nov 15, 2003
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #6]
That's a good point about getting the playing field down, I hadn't thought of it like that before.
Speaking of pocket aces, I saw a guy this weekend with pocket aces and another in the flop. He was facing a flush draw and an agressive better but he stuck it out and pulled that fourth ace on the river , With the other guy holding the ace high flush, it was needless to say a big pot . Thank god I wasn't along for the ride!
Nov 15, 2003 at 10:07 AM Quote Print
ttanaka
Status: Administrator
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #7]
Check this out:
I was playing at Commerce Casino here in Los Angeles yesterday, $2-4 Limit Texas Holdem. I'm at the small blind, holding J9 offsuit. 5 people limp in including myself.
Flop comes 9 9 3. I check, checks around to this lady (who I've noticed is a very weak player). She bets, I call, a couple others call (table is weak, loose, passive).
Turn comes - 7. I check, checks around to the lady, she bets and now I re-raise (on the big bet). Should be obvious at this point I have a 9. Everyone else folds, she calls.
River - 6. I open, she calls. She turns over AA. I beat her w/ J9.
Now, the important point here, if she had raised pre-flop, I wouldn't have even been in the hand and she would have won. And to make her situation worse, she couldn't let go of those Aces and called two extra bets that she didn't really have to.
Nov 15, 2003 at 08:23 PM Quote Print
Fnord
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #8]
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/People/mummert/poker/
According to thse guys AA, KK, JJ and TT hold up well in multi-pots. But you need to be aware that by potenitally letting others in cheap by calling the monster pairs from an early position you're raising the risk for a greater expected reward. However if someone else had pre-flop raised, her right call would be a re-raise.
IMHO, she played that hand well. She ended up betting against the 9 seeing the flop at good odds. After seeing the re-raise she went to showdown as cheaply as possible to hedge against the 9s (maybe she thought you were bluffing or had a weaker pocket pair.) Stait odds are 71.5% in her favor, then adjust by the likelyhood of someone betting with a 9 (A-10 are in a hand bet more often than a 9) I would only fold on the re-raise if I saw a tell, with so many players in there should have been a big enough pot to justify her calls after the re-raise on a limit table. Don't put too much value in one result, bad beats happen.
Dec 03, 2003 at 03:23 AM Print
Fnord
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #9]
Opps 2 errors...
"According to thse guys AA, KK, JJ and TT hold up well in multi-pots"
I forgot QQ, typo.
"Stait odds are 71.5% in her favor"
Redid the math with better numbers and it came out to 69.7% before adjusting for the likelyhood of a 9 being bet. Nitpicking, but wanted to put out the right number before someone called me on it.
(47 / 49) 0.95918367346938775510204081632653 *
(46 / 48) 0.95833333333333333333333333333333 *
(45 / 47) 0.95744680851063829787234042553191 *
(44 / 46) 0.95652173913043478260869565217391 *
(43 / 45) 0.95555555555555555555555555555556 *
(42 / 44) 0.95454545454545454545454545454545 *
(41 / 43) 0.95348837209302325581395348837209 *
(40 / 42) 0.95238095238095238095238095238095 =
0.69727891156462585034013605441831
-
ARCHIVE: Pocket Aces
pet
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Pocket Aces [post #1]
I think pocket Aces should almost never be slow-played in limit games. What percent of the time do you slow-play them in limit games?
Oct 31, 2003 at 05:51 PM Quote Print
ttanaka
Status: Administrator
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Registered: Oct 31, 2003
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #2]
I agree, that pocket rockets should never be slow-played in a limit game. However, they can be slow-played in a no-limit game if the cards on the flop justify the play. I won a big pot just last night by slow-playing my Aces. I raised pre-flop (which is still a must), the flop came Ace, 5, 8 - no two of the same suite, no real straight potential either. So I checked. The turn card was another blank, so I checked again. I knew one of two players would make a stab at this pot. Sure enough, one of those players made a big bet, I raised over the top, he went all-in. I beat him w/ trip aces.
Oct 31, 2003 at 05:58 PM Quote Print
pet
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #3]
I agree, in no-limit games pocket rockets can be slow-played after the flop. However, it can be a dangerous strategy if used too often.
Nov 01, 2003 at 09:03 AM Quote Print
MagicMark
Status: Jr. Member
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #4]
I recently saw an essay at lowlimitholdem.com in which the suggested actions was to just call with A-A. Although, the advice might have been specific to a loose game in which many people always stayed in the pot. I could then see just calling if in a late position, but I agree with you that a raise in an early position is still the best action; as it might get someone out, and it makes the rest pay!
Nov 13, 2003 at 11:34 PM Quote Print
ttanaka
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #5]
I think in Limit or No-Limit low-stakes 10 person table, the best move, without a doubt, is to raise pre-flop - no matter what the position. If everyone stays in a pot, your AA will have a very difficult time holding up. Try it, take a deck, deal one hand w/ AA, and deal 9 other hands. Then deal the board. Your hand will probably lose. So, by raising a few good things happen:
1) Narrow the playing field! You're odds of winning go up.
2) You know you are winning at this point, so it's important to get as much money in that pot as soon as possible. Everyone else is chasing your hand. It's important that they pay for it.
The only time I would consider NOT raising pre-flop w/ AA, is in a head-to-head situation, specifically a tournament, where you have a chance to deceive your opponent into a bigger pot.
Nov 14, 2003 at 03:30 AM Quote Print
Joel
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #6]
That's a good point about getting the playing field down, I hadn't thought of it like that before.
Speaking of pocket aces, I saw a guy this weekend with pocket aces and another in the flop. He was facing a flush draw and an agressive better but he stuck it out and pulled that fourth ace on the river , With the other guy holding the ace high flush, it was needless to say a big pot . Thank god I wasn't along for the ride!
Nov 15, 2003 at 10:07 AM Quote Print
ttanaka
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #7]
Check this out:
I was playing at Commerce Casino here in Los Angeles yesterday, $2-4 Limit Texas Holdem. I'm at the small blind, holding J9 offsuit. 5 people limp in including myself.
Flop comes 9 9 3. I check, checks around to this lady (who I've noticed is a very weak player). She bets, I call, a couple others call (table is weak, loose, passive).
Turn comes - 7. I check, checks around to the lady, she bets and now I re-raise (on the big bet). Should be obvious at this point I have a 9. Everyone else folds, she calls.
River - 6. I open, she calls. She turns over AA. I beat her w/ J9.
Now, the important point here, if she had raised pre-flop, I wouldn't have even been in the hand and she would have won. And to make her situation worse, she couldn't let go of those Aces and called two extra bets that she didn't really have to.
Nov 15, 2003 at 08:23 PM Quote Print
Fnord
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #8]
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/People/mummert/poker/
According to thse guys AA, KK, JJ and TT hold up well in multi-pots. But you need to be aware that by potenitally letting others in cheap by calling the monster pairs from an early position you're raising the risk for a greater expected reward. However if someone else had pre-flop raised, her right call would be a re-raise.
IMHO, she played that hand well. She ended up betting against the 9 seeing the flop at good odds. After seeing the re-raise she went to showdown as cheaply as possible to hedge against the 9s (maybe she thought you were bluffing or had a weaker pocket pair.) Stait odds are 71.5% in her favor, then adjust by the likelyhood of someone betting with a 9 (A-10 are in a hand bet more often than a 9) I would only fold on the re-raise if I saw a tell, with so many players in there should have been a big enough pot to justify her calls after the re-raise on a limit table. Don't put too much value in one result, bad beats happen.
Dec 03, 2003 at 03:23 AM Print
Fnord
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #9]
Opps 2 errors...
"According to thse guys AA, KK, JJ and TT hold up well in multi-pots"
I forgot QQ, typo.
"Stait odds are 71.5% in her favor"
Redid the math with better numbers and it came out to 69.7% before adjusting for the likelyhood of a 9 being bet. Nitpicking, but wanted to put out the right number before someone called me on it.
(47 / 49) 0.95918367346938775510204081632653 *
(46 / 48) 0.95833333333333333333333333333333 *
(45 / 47) 0.95744680851063829787234042553191 *
(44 / 46) 0.95652173913043478260869565217391 *
(43 / 45) 0.95555555555555555555555555555556 *
(42 / 44) 0.95454545454545454545454545454545 *
(41 / 43) 0.95348837209302325581395348837209 *
(40 / 42) 0.95238095238095238095238095238095 =
0.69727891156462585034013605441831
-
ARCHIVE: Pocket Aces
pet
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Pocket Aces [post #1]
I think pocket Aces should almost never be slow-played in limit games. What percent of the time do you slow-play them in limit games?
Oct 31, 2003 at 05:51 PM Quote Print
ttanaka
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #2]
I agree, that pocket rockets should never be slow-played in a limit game. However, they can be slow-played in a no-limit game if the cards on the flop justify the play. I won a big pot just last night by slow-playing my Aces. I raised pre-flop (which is still a must), the flop came Ace, 5, 8 - no two of the same suite, no real straight potential either. So I checked. The turn card was another blank, so I checked again. I knew one of two players would make a stab at this pot. Sure enough, one of those players made a big bet, I raised over the top, he went all-in. I beat him w/ trip aces.
Oct 31, 2003 at 05:58 PM Quote Print
pet
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #3]
I agree, in no-limit games pocket rockets can be slow-played after the flop. However, it can be a dangerous strategy if used too often.
Nov 01, 2003 at 09:03 AM Quote Print
MagicMark
Status: Jr. Member
Posts: 7
Registered: Nov 13, 2003
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #4]
I recently saw an essay at lowlimitholdem.com in which the suggested actions was to just call with A-A. Although, the advice might have been specific to a loose game in which many people always stayed in the pot. I could then see just calling if in a late position, but I agree with you that a raise in an early position is still the best action; as it might get someone out, and it makes the rest pay!
Nov 13, 2003 at 11:34 PM Quote Print
ttanaka
Status: Administrator
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Registered: Oct 31, 2003
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #5]
I think in Limit or No-Limit low-stakes 10 person table, the best move, without a doubt, is to raise pre-flop - no matter what the position. If everyone stays in a pot, your AA will have a very difficult time holding up. Try it, take a deck, deal one hand w/ AA, and deal 9 other hands. Then deal the board. Your hand will probably lose. So, by raising a few good things happen:
1) Narrow the playing field! You're odds of winning go up.
2) You know you are winning at this point, so it's important to get as much money in that pot as soon as possible. Everyone else is chasing your hand. It's important that they pay for it.
The only time I would consider NOT raising pre-flop w/ AA, is in a head-to-head situation, specifically a tournament, where you have a chance to deceive your opponent into a bigger pot.
Nov 14, 2003 at 03:30 AM Quote Print
Joel
Status: Jr. Member
Posts: 2
Registered: Nov 15, 2003
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #6]
That's a good point about getting the playing field down, I hadn't thought of it like that before.
Speaking of pocket aces, I saw a guy this weekend with pocket aces and another in the flop. He was facing a flush draw and an agressive better but he stuck it out and pulled that fourth ace on the river , With the other guy holding the ace high flush, it was needless to say a big pot . Thank god I wasn't along for the ride!
Nov 15, 2003 at 10:07 AM Quote Print
ttanaka
Status: Administrator
Posts: 16
Registered: Oct 31, 2003
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #7]
Check this out:
I was playing at Commerce Casino here in Los Angeles yesterday, $2-4 Limit Texas Holdem. I'm at the small blind, holding J9 offsuit. 5 people limp in including myself.
Flop comes 9 9 3. I check, checks around to this lady (who I've noticed is a very weak player). She bets, I call, a couple others call (table is weak, loose, passive).
Turn comes - 7. I check, checks around to the lady, she bets and now I re-raise (on the big bet). Should be obvious at this point I have a 9. Everyone else folds, she calls.
River - 6. I open, she calls. She turns over AA. I beat her w/ J9.
Now, the important point here, if she had raised pre-flop, I wouldn't have even been in the hand and she would have won. And to make her situation worse, she couldn't let go of those Aces and called two extra bets that she didn't really have to.
Nov 15, 2003 at 08:23 PM Quote Print
Fnord
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #8]
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/People/mummert/poker/
According to thse guys AA, KK, JJ and TT hold up well in multi-pots. But you need to be aware that by potenitally letting others in cheap by calling the monster pairs from an early position you're raising the risk for a greater expected reward. However if someone else had pre-flop raised, her right call would be a re-raise.
IMHO, she played that hand well. She ended up betting against the 9 seeing the flop at good odds. After seeing the re-raise she went to showdown as cheaply as possible to hedge against the 9s (maybe she thought you were bluffing or had a weaker pocket pair.) Stait odds are 71.5% in her favor, then adjust by the likelyhood of someone betting with a 9 (A-10 are in a hand bet more often than a 9) I would only fold on the re-raise if I saw a tell, with so many players in there should have been a big enough pot to justify her calls after the re-raise on a limit table. Don't put too much value in one result, bad beats happen.
Dec 03, 2003 at 03:23 AM Print
Fnord
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Re: Pocket Aces [post #9]
Opps 2 errors...
"According to thse guys AA, KK, JJ and TT hold up well in multi-pots"
I forgot QQ, typo.
"Stait odds are 71.5% in her favor"
Redid the math with better numbers and it came out to 69.7% before adjusting for the likelyhood of a 9 being bet. Nitpicking, but wanted to put out the right number before someone called me on it.
(47 / 49) 0.95918367346938775510204081632653 *
(46 / 48) 0.95833333333333333333333333333333 *
(45 / 47) 0.95744680851063829787234042553191 *
(44 / 46) 0.95652173913043478260869565217391 *
(43 / 45) 0.95555555555555555555555555555556 *
(42 / 44) 0.95454545454545454545454545454545 *
(41 / 43) 0.95348837209302325581395348837209 *
(40 / 42) 0.95238095238095238095238095238095 =
0.69727891156462585034013605441831
