(2nl) FR- KJo in CO vs. unknown UTG limper.

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (CO): $2.08
BTN: $2.80 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
SB: $1.98 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
BB: $4.99 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
UTG: $3.12 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
MP: $1.51 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has J:heart: K:club:

UTG calls $0.02, fold, Hero raises to $0.08, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.19, 2 players) Q:spade: J:spade: 7:diamond:
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.09, UTG raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.21

Turn: ($0.79, 2 players) T:club:
UTG bets $0.57, Hero calls $0.57

River: ($1.93, 2 players) 8:spade:
UTG checks, ???

Villain unknown just that he l/c my iso here. first off I'm not convinced just auto-folding to hi Fl c/r is correct. granted I'm treading on thin ice with KJo here.
i was thinking villains l/c range something like:QQ-22,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,A4o+,KTo+,QT o+,JTo, maybe wider i don't know, but I think he l/r QQ+ the majority of the time. there's only three cobos of QQ left after the flo so i just left it in. so on to the raise he could do this with: sets QQ,JJ,77, which there are only 7 combos of 2pair: QJ, 6 combos there. i don't he raises TP unless its TPTK maybe and there's 12 combos of AQ. now for the portion of his rsnge that makes me wanna call, the draws: he's open-ended with KT, T9 = 16 combos, gutshots: since AK is a gutter here could def be raised, and maybe AsTs , and some other AT with a BDFD = 36 combos, and there are 15 combos of two card FD's. that's 67 combos of possible draws, and 28 combos of sets 2p and TPTK,

Am I going to far here. I just think a lot of people are folding in these spots a lot , and maybe there is merit in calling , now granted KJo is prob not the best choice, but my point is theses weak l/c'ers and l/r's do bluff, and they also think a Four card FD OTF is a guarantee,

Now, the reason i'm saying all this is because look OTR villain checks, I cib , and he's got T9, so just saying that a lot of people starting out get caught in one of these villains webs where they l/c QQ , and you have AJ , on QA5 board you end up hanging yourself, but if you learn to exploit them , they can really be atm's . they go on tilt easy. some of them are running 55/2/0, or even 23/0/0 . you have to weed them out and pick apart their weaknesses which they are full of. just watch how they bet and how much , especally the ones running 50-60/4/0because their in so many hands, and they do try and bluff. it its a draw heavy board and fd's missed or a really coordinated flop bicks off , they missed their homerun.
sorry if I got ranty there

I would say flop is a ridiculously easy fold. It's not unreasonable to think he can c/r a flush draw here, I sure would, but I have absolutely no intention of calling down middle pair here. I'd expect to face at least one more bet, and since we're mostly readless, I think calling the flop raise is setting fire to money. We do have one read - the l/c. That indicates passive fish, which hints more that he'll call flush draws rather than raise them. This looks like 77 or QJ to me. It's a thin read, but it's enough to solidify my thought that this is an easy fold.

River is the world's easiest check, in case you're thinking of betting for some crazy reason.

lol I read the last bit and I see he had T9.

I stand by my fold. I have no reason to think he can have T9 in his range. I'm not bluff catching middle pair against unknowns. Maybe later if his stats show he's spewy, then fair enough. But I really don't think you should be making a habit of calling bull when c/r'd from an unknown limp donkey.

Even still, if I know he c/r's top pair, 2pr, sets, flush draws, and oesd, then I still fold. His draws have plenty of equity against us. We don't have to always call just because we think we sometimes have the best hand right now. I doubt we're in good shape against his range.

Come to think of it I think I just check back the flop, because it's not heaving with value against his range, and checking might induce a bluff while keeping the pot relatively small with our decent but far from brilliant hand.

I don't hate the bet though, I hate the call.

Yeah I know doing this with middle pair was stupid as I said to start off. but I was just highlighting the point that these passive l/c, l/r do bluff when they miss there draws.

I should have at least KQ to be looking him up here i think right? trust me I hate the way I played this hand. its just some of theses limpers get frisky post-fl and i was offering a bit of my experience with them to help.

I think KQ is my "tough decision" line.

He didn't miss his draw, so I'm not sure what point you're making here? He doesn't bet a missed river, which is what I consider to be bluffing a missed draw.

He was semibluffing, and then checked a bink river because he was afraid of being raised by a flush. He should b/f river, but he plans to c/c obviously.

If he bets here on a brick river, then yes, your point is valid and hands like this become more valuable to us. But we need to have some reason to think he does, and a l/c after two folds is not nearly enough info.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OngBonga

I think KQ is my "tough decision" line.

He didn't miss his draw, so I'm not sure what point you're making here? He doesn't bet a missed river, which is what I consider to be bluffing a missed draw.

He was semibluffing, and then checked a bink river because he was afraid of being raised by a flush. He should b/f river, but he plans to c/c obviously.

If he bets here on a brick river, then yes, your point is valid and hands like this become more valuable to us. But we need to have some reason to think he does, and a l/c after two folds is not nearly enough info.

---

that's def true, and i did cib just to let ya know. i now have like 180 hands on this dude and he's donated $6.39 to the weld fund. i swear he's looking for me at tables now and sitting, but he's so bad, and then he just goes spaso when ya stack him.

This is a perfect hand to check back the flop with imo. If you aren't checking back with this hand, what hand are you checking back with?

As played, with reads I may peel the flop cause i would assume he has lots of Axss limp/calling and then c/r here. No reads, meh b/f.

As played with the flop call, i guess call turn. If I'm calling turn it's cause I put him on spades, so I'm gonna assume he's getting trappy on river and not bluff. I don't think we can call turn if we think we're behind (despite the OESD here), cause our implied odds kinda suck when a 9 or A falls. Not gonna get paid off.