This week's article is the first of several that will tackle continuation betting.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/blogs/t...-betting-17408
Discuss.
This week's article is the first of several that will tackle continuation betting.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/blogs/t...-betting-17408
Discuss.
Hope there is an advanced concepts,
this is similar to the trouble I was having with the button raise strategy.
The next several articles in my series are probably going to deal with different facets of continuation betting. I've started with some of the basics that are often ignored when continuation betting gets brought up because it's fashionable these days to try to talk about balancing your triple barrel range before you gain an intuitive understanding of position and how it changes your options.Quote:
Originally Posted by chemist
Bump.
The relationship between the checking range and the c-betting range is something that I very rarely see discussed or asked about here in the BC.
Well it's hardly a beginner's concept...that's probably why. But do elaborate for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
This is something I worry about. Learning things that are just too advanced for when you're playing at micro-stakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyPoker
Nothing is going to be too advanced to know really. Juts a case of whether you can implement it at BC or not, don't want to be levelling yourself.
You just rewrote what I said in my post.Quote:
Originally Posted by ImSavy
The BC has levelled itself since I first started posting here in 09. Lots of posters have drivelled on about advanced concepts yet can't beat 5nl.
No I didn't, because it's obvious if you can implement it or not. You'll have to do that as you move up. You're going to come across players who are awful at every stake, so treating every 1/2 player the same would be an awful idea and as a result you could easily level yourself and lose loads of money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra_1878
lol why don't you enlighten us then.Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyPoker
edit: i think since cbetting is something that comes up just about every hand you play that goes to the postflop, it's a pretty fundamental skill to work on, and like any poker concept (actually any concept in life) the better you understand why you're doing something, the better you'll be at it.
^^Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyPoker
Sounds like drivel.
^^Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyPoker
Sounds like drivel.
@ Spoonitnow what is the relationship?
The only relationship i can see is that the more strong hands you c-bet the weaker your checking range becomes and the more strong hands you check the weaker your c-betting range becomes.
Spoon a scholar and a gentleman.
It's not about me enlightening you, it's a clear fact that the best players from FTR over the last 2-3 years haven't been in here analysing retarded spew hands at busto stakes by over thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by eugmac
It can be detrimental to implement more advanced concepts while missing other more basic stuff. One thing that comes to mind, your ranges don't need to be that balanced in 5NL, 10NL, 25NL, 50NL. Playing to exploit your opponents' tendencies is much more important. To give an example, plenty of players there will bet according to the strength of their hand, so if you're going to use bluffs to "balance your value range for the future" you can make the wrong plays.Quote:
Originally Posted by ImSavy
if you read the article you'll see that spoon says pretty much the same thing, so i don't know who's arguing with whom.
Spoon levelled us all by even saying "I don't see these being discussed here much."
Well duh...
Spoon's advice is great for longevity in poker, but uNL grinders need to build a decent bankroll and be playing seriously before any of this stuff becomes a foremost concern. Sauce123's advice (as old as it is) is far more relevant for micro grinders, and I don't even think it's in the beginner's digest lol - which exemplifies what I'm talking about re this forum - that basic strategies and tilt control are ignored for ill-informed conversations about optimal bluffing ranges and such like.
to be honest i think he just typed something that happened to come to mind rather than having such an elaborate plan about it.
Being fair to Spoonitnow though (even though he can't take compliments) he is and was far ahead of the curve in poker thinking. He was talking about optimal poker based on mathematics for as far back as I remember.
That's exactly what I said. That'd be levelling yourself, but it's not bad to know. Could your time be better spent? probably, but all in all it's going to be good to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
This article especially isn't too advanced. In fact I'm cbetting a less balanced range to exploit peoples tenancies more now than I was before I read this article, so my play at microstakes has improved.
I wasn't disagreeing with you just elaborating.
EasyPoker why don't you write a strategy series tailored specifically to micro-grinders since you are so adept with the skills required to beat microstakes?
You seem well-qualified, i'm sure it would get a great reception.
Because this information is already out there by the bucketload. Training sites, forums etc. There's nothing I can add.Quote:
Originally Posted by seven-deuce
uNL -----------SSNL-----------MSNL-------HSNL
Exploitative play ---------------------Optimal play---->
Did you read the article? Optimal play wasn't mentioned once.
It is very much a beginner's concept. Did you even read the link in the OP?Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyPoker
ikrQuote:
Originally Posted by eugmac
Along similar lines, the more weak hands you c-bet, the stronger your checking range becomes and vice-versa. Go just a little deeper and think about when you want a strong checking range, a weak checking range, a strong c-betting range and a weak c-betting range. What if your opponent raises c-bets a lot? Folds to c-bets a lot? Bets when checked to on the flop a lot? Deciding how to set up your c-betting and checking ranges based on this information will make it really easy to exploit the hell out of people.Quote:
Originally Posted by seven-deuce
Next week's post goes into more depth on this particular part of the topic.
I really don't like the whole attitude in this thread from a number of people (not picking on you) who have implied that balanced strategies are somehow more advanced than exploitative ones. In terms of the decision-making process, exploitation and balance aren't very different at all, and you use most of the same information to do either. I'm of the opinion that you can't learn how to do either one well without learning how to do the other. It just so happens that finding a balanced strategy in a situation effectively tells you how to exploit several different types of players, so it's often more efficient to find a pretty balanced strategy first and then deviate from it in a direction that will exploit your particular opponent's tendencies.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
@bold, not really.Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyPoker
Yeah I read it.
Quote:
The Overall Idea
The main idea that you have to deal with when it comes to continuation betting is that you’re setting the tone for two more streets of betting where the pot is only going to be getting bigger and bigger. Your position and the strength of your hand are the two main factors that help to determine whether you want that pot to keep getting bigger or not. Using these two factors in the context of how your opponent plays will help you to determine good ways to play your range when you’re deciding whether or not you should make a continuation bet. End quote.
Well we all Continuation bet all the time ! The articles makes sense to me . If we focus on the information in the article rather than the info not in it we might learn something to improve our game or remember something that we forgot from the past ! ;-) let's get better guys.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/blogs/t...in-poker-17324