2nl - cr on flop - b on turn w/ 2nd pair

15 hands with the villain, so far looks like a quite decent quite aggressive TAG. I wonder if he calls with enough worse hands on flop and if I can push him off 99+ on turn.

Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from Play Online Poker, Site Reviews & Poker Forum | FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

UTG+1 ($2.91)
MP1 ($1.13)
MP2 ($2.44)
MP3 ($1.12)
CO ($0.80)
Button ($3.47)
SB ($1.17)
Hero (BB) ($2.95)
UTG ($7.11)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif
6 folds, Button bets $0.04, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.02

Flop: ($0.09) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $0.06, Hero raises $0.23, Button calls $0.17

Turn: ($0.55) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $0.33, Button calls $0.33

River: ($1.21) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero?

You don't win $2nl by bluffing

Call pre OK given deep stacks. However we are OOP vs a tight player so I don't mind folding.
c/c flop with intention of c/f most turns. The goal is to either improve or try and see a cheap showdown. Don't raise the flop.
As played, check turn, don't open.
As played c/f river.

Sometimes it is right to play passively, more so at 2/5nl. I do that with SC's at 2nl in limped or minraised multiway pots in position.

I would prefer c/r flop, lead turn on Ah with something like 7h6h, 7h5h, 6h5h, Ac4x, 5c4c, JhTh, Jh9h or Th9h. I think this line is probably okay with 8h6h against tighter ranges, but his pre-flop range is so wide that his flop range is going to be pretty weak, so this becomes strong enough to play for a c/c. You have tons of hands that you can make good bluffs with, so you don't have to throw in semi-strong hands like 86.

The thing about 8h6h here is that it's relatively strong in terms of making pairs and relatively weak in terms of drawing power. Compare that to a hand like JhTh that doesn't have much strength in terms of pairs but that does have a lot of drawing power. Hands like 8h6h are better for fleshing out your c/c passive-type lines, and hands like JhTh are better for playing with your more aggressive lines.

Along these lines, you're also going to look to play your top pair hands in a very strong way most of the time here.

I hope that helps. Your head's in the right place here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

The thing about 8h6h here is that it's relatively strong in terms of making pairs and relatively weak in terms of drawing poker. Compare that to a hand like JhTh that doesn't have much strength in terms of pairs but that does have a lot of drawing power.

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sorry...not sure what you mean here. could you expand a bit, please?

(i think it's the word "relatively" that's throwing me)

Once again what is your thought process for the flop c/r and turn barrel. I think both are perfectly fine but I want to hear you outline good reasons to c/r the flop w/ this hand v this villain and then reasoning on why you keep firing on the turn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoubleJ

sorry...not sure what you mean here. could you expand a bit, please?

(i think it's the word "relatively" that's throwing me)

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JT is a weaker hand than 86 in terms of showdown value and a stronger hand in terms of hitting shit that gives us a better hand than Villain, so it's a better bluffing hand.

Edit: Also I typoed power as poker in that piece you quoted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

JT is a weaker hand than 86 in terms of showdown value ...

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thanks spoon

ok - the drawing potential bit i get; let me see if i understand the rest...and apologies if i'm being a bit blonde here

JT and 86 will both hit a pair on ~30% of flops

When JT hits, ~50% of the time it'll be TP, compared to 4-5% of the time for 86. OK so far?

the majority of the flops 86 pairs will be middle/weak pairs, and these can't really be bet for value, but can still win frequently at showdown, and so represent a viable Plan B if we can get there cheaply.

pls feel free to berate harshly where necessary

JT gets out-kickered by any reasonable range when both players pair the same board card.

86 has better kicker value, since K8,Q8,J8 K6,Q6,J6,T6,96 are generally not in villains ranges.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoubleJ

thanks spoon

ok - the drawing potential bit i get; let me see if i understand the rest...and apologies if i'm being a bit blonde here

JT and 86 will both hit a pair on ~30% of flops

When JT hits, ~50% of the time it'll be TP, compared to 4-5% of the time for 86. OK so far?

the majority of the flops 86 pairs will be middle/weak pairs, and these can't really be bet for value, but can still win frequently at showdown, and so represent a viable Plan B if we can get there cheaply.

pls feel free to berate harshly where necessary

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I'm talking about on this flop, not pre-flop.

i'd 3bet this hand preflop before i'd call it. folding is my preference though

i definitely like betting the turn once we get there in this fashion. sizing looks fine. could probably go smaller actually to target the hands < pair of queens in his range. he will never fold a Q to one bet just because the ace fell.

I'd just like to withdraw what I said about the turn bet: I completely missed the fact that Hero picked up a flush draw OTT. Betting is fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lucothefish

You don't win $2nl by bluffing

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bzzzt, wrong answer. Thanks for playing.

Seriously, $2nl is a great place to learn about when to fire 2 and 3 barrels since your opponents are peeling so light.

That said, this hand is a spewy mess.