Challenge: Build a bankroll for 10NL via $20 Rush Ring Game Ticket

I'm not really a frequent poster in this forum, mostly because I am unsure of myself and the way I think with regards to poker. By having a mini-challenge I hope to overcome this problem and start posting/commenting on at a higher frequency.

I got a $20 ring game ticket for Rush Poker. I don't really play Rush or Zoom, but given that this is free then I guess I'd give it a shot. The plan is to play 5NL Rush and build up a roll enough for 10NL play.

This isn't necessarily a bankroll-building practice as I've got enough to play 25NL. Some of you may think that this is a waste of time, and I agree to a certain extent. But since this is Rush, if I am really meant to succeed in this challenge then I should be able to zip through 5NL in no time at all (there's always variance of course). If not, then maybe I just got lucky to be able to build my bankroll up to this point. This is just a way of validating if I really did beat the lower stakes then, as I'm currently being clobbered at 25NL.

This challenge is really just a short term thing. Here are my rules:

1. Build a bankroll up to $200.
2. No-brainer: if I lose the entire value of my ticket then this challenge ends.
3. If I am able to reach FTP point equivalent of the ticket then I will convert the ticket to cash and the challenge ends, and consider this a failure.

I plan on playing 6-max NLHE. Question is, would FR be better?

Cheers!

Start at 2nl and move up when you have 10 buys for 5nl imo. Dunno but I think variance is more of an issue at rush and 4buys could mean busto pretty quick.

Actually I don't remember if there is a 2nl for rush.

only $5nl rush,

Play tight, don't level yourself into thinking anything tricky. Cbet tons Fold to raises pre and post and valuebet the hell out of made hands

Do it!

how?
rathole. Meaning that if you get to 220bb or more at a table then leave. Any $$ on the ticket in excess of the $20 ticket value become cash in your bankroll. Once you've made $10 off the ticket this way you should start 2-tabling rush, one with the ticket and one with the money you have made with it.
plus all that jyms said above

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Originally Posted by tiltingdonkey

3. If I am able to reach FTP point equivalent of the ticket then I will convert the ticket to cash and the challenge ends, and consider this a failure.

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NO
if you earn enough points to convert the ticket to $$ without going busto on the ticket then this is an absolute success.
You are hoping to turn $20 into $200 at 5nl, making 36 buyins will take time. If you have turned $20 into $150 and then the $20 ticket becomes $20 cash then how on earth could this op be a failur

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Originally Posted by tiltingdonkey

I plan on playing 6-max NLHE. Question is, would FR be better?

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same same - play whichever it is that you are better at.

@supa 5NL Rush is the lowest limit

@jyms thanks for the tip!

@daven I don't have the exact numbers but I was just thinking that clearing the FTP points would take such a long time that if I haven't reached $200 by then it just means that I am not playing as well as I could. I could be wrong though. However I get your point, and maybe I'm being too hard on myself, so maybe I can modify that 3rd condition. If by the time I clear the points and haven't reached $100 then it would be a failure. Thanks for the encouragement by the way!

First session almost turned into a total disaster. At one point I was down to half a buy-in and thinking to myself this is the most stupid challenge I came up with. I probably would have made history in FTR for having the shortest challenge length and failed! Fortunately I was able to turn it a bit and made a buyin back so ended with about 1 1/2 buyin, gives me a little leeway.

Looking back it was probably a combination of being unfamiliar with the nitiness of Rush on a 6-max table, some bad beats and lots of bad plays, and being bored (yes, I got bored single-tabling Rush). It took me a while to adjust. I was also overthinking hands, which is a tendency of mine when I play fewer tables. I was also on the brink of tilt at one point where I called 40bb overshove OTF while I was holding TPNK. At a regular 6-max table this is more often a bluff given villain's fishy stats. This time he had a better TP. But I learned my lesson: never play very weak hands even against the fish.

To combat boredom I decided to tweak my challenge a bit. I moved almost my entire FT roll to stars and left $50 to allow me to fire up another rush table. I proceeded to play my second session. This one went better, though I was able to play only about an hour and had to leave, which sucks, since I was doing well. Won about a buyin for my ring game ticket and 1 1/2 buyins in total. This time I followed jym's advice, folding to any preflop/flop raise and just value betting the hell out of my hands.

This is one hand that I totally misplayed though. I just missed a ton of value:

Full Tilt - $0.05 NL RUSH (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: $7.40
BTN: $6.75
SB: $5.69
BB: $6.72
UTG: $5.44
Hero (MP): $6.78

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has T:heart: K:heart:

fold, Hero raises to $0.15, fold, fold, fold, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.32, 2 players) T:spade: 3:spade: K:spade:
BB checks, Hero bets $0.20, BB calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.72, 2 players) T:diamond:
BB checks, Hero bets $0.45, BB calls $0.45

River: ($1.62, 2 players) 9:heart:
BB bets $0.75, Hero raises to $2.50, fold

Hero wins $2.92

I should have been betting flop and turn more, probably close to pot. And I think on the river a raise-shove is better than a 3x raise as I effectively have the nuts (he just can't have KK here), but could spew with a flush. I need to work on my value betting skills.

So my current bankroll:

Ticket: $13.05
Cash : $52.02

I haven't really made adjustments to my normal preflop raising range, and so far I've only played 2k hands so these stats are meanigless, but at 5NL Rush are my VPIP/PFR stats optimal?

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/...moyo/stats.jpg

Cheers!

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Originally Posted by tiltingdonkey

This time I followed jym's advice, folding to any preflop/flop raise and just value betting the hell out of my hands.

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the advice jyms gave here is gold

This is one hand that I totally misplayed though. I just missed a ton of value:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tiltingdonkey

Full Tilt - $0.05 NL RUSH (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: $7.40
BTN: $6.75
SB: $5.69
BB: $6.72
UTG: $5.44
Hero (MP): $6.78

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has T:heart: K:heart:

fold, Hero raises to $0.15, fold, fold, fold, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.32, 2 players) T:spade: 3:spade: K:spade:
BB checks, Hero bets $0.20, BB calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.72, 2 players) T:diamond:
BB checks, Hero bets $0.45, BB calls $0.45

River: ($1.62, 2 players) 9:heart:
BB bets $0.75, Hero raises to $2.50, fold

Hero wins $2.92

I should have been betting flop and turn more, probably close to pot. And I think on the river a raise-shove is better than a 3x raise as I effectively have the nuts (he just can't have KK here), but could spew with a flush. I need to work on my value betting skills.

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i agree, flop and turn a little bigger (flop 30c, turn isn't a huge mistake as played), shove river or 3-button-theory to about $5.95

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Originally Posted by tiltingdonkey

but at 5NL Rush are my VPIP/PFR stats optimal?

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/...moyo/stats.jpg

Cheers!

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there aren't really optimal stats. There are nits who crush and lags who crush and tags who crush and... There aren't any glaring leaks here, although you are folding a lot to 3bets (probably fine). Have you got a HUD that is working on rush? note that most of the players you are up against will not.

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Originally Posted by daven

Have you got a HUD that is working on rush?

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I'm currently using PT3. If you wait a while before acting the stats do show up, but I cannot really vouch for the accuracy of the stats, although they look fine.

Third session went very well. Fourth session was somewhat meh, misplayed some hands terribly. But I think I have already adjusted to 5NL Rush play, but I still find myself not giving credit to squeezes too often, and out-leveling myself against unknowns (which is a very bad habit I have even on regular tables).

This hand illustrates this. 14 hands on villain with a 21/21 vpip/pfr. No stats on UTG:

Full Tilt - $0.05 NL RUSH (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $20.92
UTG: $2.30
MP: $5.30
CO: $3.76
Hero (BTN): $5.11
SB: $2.35

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has Q:spade: A:diamond:

UTG raises to $0.15, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.15, fold, BB raises to $0.62, fold, Hero calls $0.47

Flop: ($1.41, 2 players) 8:club: 3:club: 5:heart:
BB checks, Hero bets $0.85, BB raises to $3.96, fold

BB wins $2.91

I think pre-flop call vs squeeze is terrible given I don't really have good reads, but I somehow leveled myself into thinking he was squeeze-bluffing. I should have known better as the original raiser was UTG. But when UTG folded it was 'leveling' time! As played, flop bet was too big I think.

I have almost gotten back the value of my ring game ticket to its max value, and have increased my cash bankroll a bit. I haven't played in a while though due to work deadlines, but will try to put in some volume tonight. Hopefully this doesn't affect my quality of play, and continue to run good.

Bankroll update:

Ticket: $18.37
Cash :$60.50

Cheers!

Current update:

Cash : $114.16
Ticket: $0

So after being able to bring back the value of my ticket to its maximum value, everything went down from there. Challenge ends here. Results: FAILED.

Silver lining: at least I made something $28 out of this challenge ($50 I left in my account, $20 from the ticket and around $16 in rakeback). I can still continue building up a roll for 10NL, but one of the rules I stipulated is that the challenge ends when my ticket values goes 0, so there it ends.

Post-mortem: I had several difficulties taking on this challenge: The main one is that Rush (or Zoom) just isn't the game for me, I think. I am really having a difficult time getting reads on players and couldn't make correct standard decisions. And I time-out while taking notes too often even getting folded out with AA once, so that too is a pain. On hindsight though, I think I should have just stuck to playing 2 tables instead of 4.

Another reason is that given the speed of how the game goes, I had very high expectations on how quickly I can win money. When I started out with pokerstars last year I was able to zoom past 5NL regular tables in just about 35k hands over a month and a half (excluding bonuses), yet here I am playing more than that number of hands and yet I haven't even managed to win 6 buyins, so I found myself in a lot of spots were I was forcing the issue (making bad bluffs, overbetting too much for value, etc.) which of course cost me money.

Another thing I realized, which I think is most important, is that I have become weak when it comes to standard stuffs. Given how readless we mostly are against villains at Rush, at least at 5NL, I find myself lost in such situations and making the wrong plays. This is quite alarming and I need to go back to the basics.

Now that I'm done with this craziness, I think I should just go back playing my regular stakes. The challenge was eye-opening though. I hope to retain the lessons I learned from the challenge.

Cheers!

from this

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Originally Posted by tiltingdonkey

So my current bankroll:

Ticket: $13.05
Cash : $52.02

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to this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tiltingdonkey

Current update:

Cash : $114.16
Ticket: $0

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i've seen worse poker failures...

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Originally Posted by tiltingdonkey

I haven't even managed to win 6 buyins, BECAUSE I found myself in a lot of spots were I was forcing the issue (making bad bluffs, overbetting too much for value, etc.) which of course cost me money.

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fyp

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tiltingdonkey

I need to go back to the basics.

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common problem for all of us i think

is rush poker usa friendly