Studying poker away from the table, how's it done???

What do you guys do away from the table? I'v read a few poker books but that's it, i always draw a blank when i think of how to study and improve away from the table, i basically just imagine scenarios in my head and think of what is the best line to take never any written work. I dunno what's worthwhile, although just thinking about the different levels of thought that can be applied in any situation vs different opponents is fascinating, from ABC vs dumbass players to the complex thought processes of "he knows that i know that"

Any help here would be greatly appreciated.:confused:

I'm a degenerate so I rarely study but imo there is no better way to study than reviewing hands.

1. Review hands

Anything else?

Find a poker friend or two and have some hand discussions. Nothing better than getting some fresh perspectives.

Study ranges and equities. On the strength of this, know how much equity you need to shove in common situations. Further, look at different types of player and think about how much fold equity you have and therefore how wide you can get away with shoving.

practice hand reading and equity estimation (I rarely do this by the way :D).

To a lesser extent, study our opponents by reviewing how they play their hands. It's not as useful as we rarely encounter the same opponents often enough, but it gives us an idea on how the good, the average, the bad and the general population plays.

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Originally Posted by rong

Study ranges and equities. On the strength of this, know how much equity you need to shove in common situations. Further, look at different types of player and think about how much fold equity you have and therefore how wide you can get away with shoving.

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So i should just stove say OESD on the flop vs a villains range then at the table i can get a fairly accurate estimation of my equity. Then change villains from calling stations to nit to competent reg etc.

So say i'm analysing oesd on a rainbow flop. So say a villain who opens quite a few hands preflop at 6max opens from the CO and i flat on the BTN with 67s he cbets a high % of the time as well. I have reason to believe he is capable of folding a decent hand and isn't a calling station.

so the flop comes 45K rainbow.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

736,560 games 0.013 secs 56,658,461 games/sec

Board: 4h 5d Ks
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.953% 42.80% 00.15% 315252 1123.50 { 76s }
Hand 1: 57.047% 56.89% 00.15% 419061 1123.50 { 22+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+, QJo, JTo }

I know vs this kind of standard range i have 42% equity on a rainbow flop. Villain cbets like i expect him to, so i decide to raise to build a pot if i hit on the turn and fold out all his air. But villain calls so i change his range to AA KK 44 55 TPGK's and hands with moderate showdown value TT-QQ.

Turn is 9 of clubs a blank. Villain checks. I shove. Hoping to fold out all his showdown value hands AA TT-QQ KJ KQ. I feel i can credibly rep a set or 45 on given previous actions and on this dry board texture i know i am not drawing dead vs the top of villains range also. I have 18% equity but believe i have decent fold equity vs villain if he folds AA TT-QQ KJ KQ that is 48 combos out of 57 if my math is correct so we have a lot of fold equity so this would be a good spot to shove an oesd vs a villain who isn't calling with out the nuts, taking advantage of your position and fold equity and image if you haven't been to active/overly aggro the past few orbits.

Is this what you mean? just keep doing this for all common scenarios then just change about villains tendencies and abilities/skill level. And i will get better overall.

When my laptop broke, I and I needed my hud fix. I bought a cheap calculator and pack of cards. Dealt AA v KK. Random flops , worked out changing equities, street by street, studied combinations. Figured out how to convert % into odds.

Filled pages of my notepad working stuff out. Finding out how much I didnt actually know.
I got a new pc, then it stopped, im still a beginner, but playing 20 NL . I was 2NL when my laptop broke.

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Originally Posted by celtic123

When my laptop broke, I and I needed my hud fix. I bought a cheap calculator and pack of cards. Dealt AA v KK. Random flops , worked out changing equities, street by street, studied combinations. Figured out how to convert % into odds.

Filled pages of my notepad working stuff out. Finding out how much I didnt actually know.
I got a new pc, then it stopped, im still a beginner, but playing 20 NL . I was 2NL when my laptop broke.

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If you don't mind me asking are you beating 20nl? And what site do you play on?

I currently play 10nl taking a few days break then ill be grinding as much as i can and studying as well. I can't wait to move up to 25nl where you can make decent $ compared to what im used to at 2nl,5nl and 10nl.

My plan is to clear a few deposit bonuses on different sites over the summer and take a shot at 25nl when i have 30+ BI's so i don't play like a little girl because i'm under rolled.

That's the gist of it. But not just oesd, try bottom pair and a flush draw? Bottom pair, gut shot & bdfd? etc.

It will help if you have some structure to this. Think about typical villains and common variations. Maybe just study tags at first, think about a bunch of situations you frequently see and think about what you can get away with.

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Originally Posted by celtic123

Filled pages of my notepad working stuff out. Finding out how much I didn't actually know.

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Lots of gold in this thread, but this alone reminded me how easy it is to forget that study is study, whether physics or poker.

Everyone learns differently. If you haven't ever considered learning modalities, then look into it. Some people learn really well in lectures, but struggle to learn anything from homework. Some people can be told what to do 100 times and they'll never remember it, but if you show them once, they remember it forever.

Each of us will learn the most when we balance our modality to our own strengths.

I tend to think I'm a genius in my head, but when I say something out loud, I realize its stupid. So I need to talk to myself when I'm working on an important idea, before I present it to anyone. I need to say something out loud in order to trigger my skepticism that makes me question if the conclusions are good. I work best in groups.

All I'm saying is... Whatever your style of study, you will almost definitely benefit from taking the time to study what methods of studying work best for you.

The rest of my advice is being presented by others so far.

Also, watch the pros play on TV or internet when you can. Not only is it good to think about poker when you are not in the hand, but also those guys accidentally enlighten me with off-handed comments.

EDIT: Watch bikes vids on FTR, too. The nonchalant way that he folds trips on the river, pushes people off of draws, and gets otherwise decent players to turn into complete donks against him... it's just spectacular in its own right.

So a wee list of things we can do to better our game and become more competent/balanced players that make fewer mistakes.

1. Review hand histories assigning villain a range on every street, analyze whether you played the hand optimally or missed out on a +EV bluff opportunity or a profitable call.

2. Study ranges and equities in common scenarios.

3. Find a poker friend who shares your enthusiasm for improving their games and who can motivate you when you hit a motivational slump.

4. Figure out your optimal learning style and capitalize on that knowledge.

Use some programs. There's tons out there. Flopzilla and CardrunnersEV are exceptional.

Those cost money so equilab wold be a decent free program. Learn how board textures interact with ranges, try to build your own ranges, learn some math stuff.

Yea bikes is great to listen to talking about poker. I haven't watched any of his vids but I'm sure they'll be excellent.

Re no 2. Something renton said in his ama was trying to play as many hands as possible if you can do so profitably. That's somewhat of a misquote, but the gist of it is the more hands you realise you can add into your bluffing and value ranges the better. Hence why I mentioned looking at lots of situations where you won't typically know how much equity you have and looking to see if in these typically lower equity situations how a little fold equity can turn a c/f into a c/r.

Take note of me completely fucking this theory up in my most recent bc thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rong

the more hands you realise you can add into your bluffing and value ranges the better. Hence why I mentioned looking at lots of situations where you won't typically know how much equity you have and looking to see if in these typically lower equity situations how a little fold equity can turn a c/f into a c/r.

Take note of me completely fucking this theory up in my most recent bc thread.

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Exactly this. Picking good pre and post flop bluffs with hands that have some potential instead of going for broke with a worthless hand maximizes the amount you exploit your opponent.

Of course targeting specific villains that can and will fold and choosing your spots to maximize your success rate is essential as well.

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Originally Posted by kmind

Use some programs. There's tons out there. Flopzilla and CardrunnersEV are exceptional.

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Flopzilla FTW

Does anyone know of/Use Ace Poker Drills? (It's by the same guys who make LeakBuster for HEM, btw)

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Originally Posted by seven-deuce

If you don't mind me asking are you beating 20nl? And what site do you play on?
.

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I definitely cant beat the regulars at 20NL. But im beating some of the worse players. I don't think that qualifies as beating it tho.

I play on Microgaming , Ladbrokes.

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Originally Posted by DoubleJ

Flopzilla FTW

Does anyone know of/Use Ace Poker Drills? (It's by the same guys who make LeakBuster for HEM, btw)

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I have to opt to never recommend their products. I have LeakBuster and like it and use it.

But their marketing techniques are very shady and I have no respect for their company. I tried Ace Poker Drills awhile ago and I don't remember if I liked it but I assume I didn't if I don't remember it.

I personally find watching live videos helps my game the most at this stage in my learning (particularly Grinderschool), as it helps massively with the critical thought processes. I'm an aural-visual learner though and I think it's important to know what learning style you are if you're going to maximise your study time.

I find books can be okay, but it's important to periodically re-read them. I've found the books I thought were brilliant as a beginner now seem very basic, yet others which were a little bit over my head before now seem incredibly deep now I have a few hundred thousand hands of experience to draw on.

What does everyone suggest as the best poker show/series to watch to improve your game?

Full Ring Cash games:
High Stakes Poker
Pokerstars The Big Game
Party Poker Big Game
Million Dollar Cash Game

Short handed / SNG's
Poker After Dark
Party Poker Premier League
WPT

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Originally Posted by kmind

...their marketing techniques are very shady and I have no respect for their company...

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oooo errr

what kind of 'shady'?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoubleJ

Flopzilla FTW

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Great video here on how to use Flopzilla that ties in 100% with this thread:

Using Flopzilla | SplitSuit

[BTW - there's also a discount offer at the end. May/may not still be valid]

Oddly, the guy doesn't seem to know how to use the filters (Ooooh. Get me. Software God), and doesn't mention HeatMapping (though he may not be on the latest release), but still v. good.

So many Eye-Opening moments with this application. Rilly. :cool:

HEM/PT are a goldmine for reviewing your game. Filters, filters, filters.
Think about why things matter. What makes position important? ask yourself a simple question and spend time trying to answer it.

equity calcs on common situations or interesting spots as per what rong suggested are a great idea. This incorporates betsizing. When you start to understand how much a 40% pot cbet has to work to be profitable you'll probably start to cbet too often, but it's a worthwhile learning process.

There are huge resources here on flopturnriver - isf's articles are amazing, as are a bunch of the things written by spoon. Read, understand, take notes, etc.

look at threads containing hands posted here where (lately) people including m2m, icanhastreebet, fnord, bikes, and others have posted their thoughts. Post in threads that people start without reading others opinions in advance. Post hands. Set up skype/irc groups to talk with people in real time about hand histories or ideas you're working through.

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

Full Ring Cash games:
High Stakes Poker
Pokerstars The Big Game
Party Poker Big Game
Million Dollar Cash Game

Short handed / SNG's
Poker After Dark
Party Poker Premier League
WPT

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don't watch these to get better at poker

newmanmi's vids on DC are pretty good for FR - someone was asking about DC on here a while ago. Get the free trial, download them, turn off the trial so you don't get charged, ez game.

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Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

What does everyone suggest as the best poker show/series to watch to improve your game?

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what's your game?

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Originally Posted by daven

what's your game?

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Micro stakes 6-max NLHE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoubleJ

oooo errr

what kind of 'shady'?

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So many people from their company go into threads on all poker forums possible disguised talking about how great their products are. They also ask certain players to do the same in their blogs etc without people knowing they're really just advertising them and don't care about their products.

May not sound too bad or whatever but it makes me have very little respect for a company that needs that to happen.

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Originally Posted by kmind

So many people from their company go into threads on all poker forums possible disguised talking about how great their products are...

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o great

now everyone suspects me :shifty:

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Originally Posted by DoubleJ

o great

now everyone suspects me :shifty:

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You're good. Now's not the thread to go into it but they do contact FTRers.

Anyways, I think a good way of studying is something I hoped we could try to do in the BC at some time. Play an "Exploit the player" game where someone posts as many reads/stats/etc. on a player and we all chime in on how we'd exploit the player's tendencies. We'd talk about building preflop and postflop ranges, talk about board texture, bet sizing on board texture, etc.

And there might be some good arguing going on which is fun.

I'm a member on DeucesCracked and watch one or more of their videos whilst taking notes on them etc. They definitely help my game, and there's all types of videos ranging from meta-game talk, to maths, to game theory, to live ghosting, to ghosting coaching sessions, all types of stakes and all different types of games.

There's even a video series on how to study away from the table lmao. It's called ''The Haj School'' (Haj stands for shark in some scandinavian country) by WiltOnTilt. And that video series explains all the different ways you can learn poker away from the tables and I really found it amazing because it just gave me so many new ways to study poker away from the table. This video series goes into long lengths on how you can get the most learning experience from studying ''live videos, theory videos, forum posts, group of poker friends, hand histories, making your own videos, coaching, and it also covers some other topics like running bad, when to get coaching, when to go pro, the red line, and more etc.'' Def the first video series I would recommend anyone watch.

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Originally Posted by kmind

Play an "Exploit the player" game where someone posts as many reads/stats/etc. on a player and we all chime in on how we'd exploit the player's tendencies. We'd talk about building preflop and postflop ranges, talk about board texture, bet sizing on board texture, etc.

And there might be some good arguing going on which is fun.

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DO IT. My HEM trial has expired though, anyone with a decent sample on a villain post the stats and we can get a good discussion going and hopefully improve our villain profiling and become quicker to make adjustments vs certain villains increasing our edge and win rate. I'm all for it.

Good idea. I'll do it later. But we need someone good to comment on it too so let's hope bikes or daven or someone pops in to help.

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Originally Posted by rong

Good idea. I'll do it later. But we need someone good to comment on it too so let's hope bikes or daven or someone pops in to help.

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+1

ITT? or start a new one?

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Originally Posted by rong

Good idea. I'll do it later. But we need someone good to comment on it too so let's hope bikes or daven or someone pops in to help.

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+2

NEW THREAD!!!

summat like this for the stats list?

Total Hands
Net Won
bb/100
VPIP
PFR
PFR/VPIP Ratio
Agg
Agg%
Flop Agg%
Turn Agg%
River Agg%
3Bet
vs 3Bet Fold%
4Bet Range
Steal Pct
SB Fold to Steal
BB Fold to Steal
Flop CBet%
Flop Fold vs Cbet
Turn Fold vs Cbet
WTSD%
W$SD%
W$WSF

Hold on. Let's not all so it. We'll just have lots of the same thing.

Unless........

One of us do a nit, say 10/4 or similar.

One do a typical tag, say a 14/12 or similar.

One do a more laggy 19/17 or similar.

Those are fr stays Obv.

I can do nit or tag with an ok sampe size

Best lag I have is 300 hands. I recently bought a new laptop so data is low.

are we doing full ring? It doesn't really matter the adjustments and exploitative strategies will be the same if a villain is to loose pre or too tight etc the stat %'s will just be different for 6max.

Guys i have no stats to post on villains btw cuz my HEM trial is over, but i'll be taking part in the discussions on how to exploit the villains you guys post.

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Originally Posted by rong

Best lag I have is 300 hands. I recently bought a new laptop so data is low.

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Gotta work with what we got i say start the thread up, people can add villains with larger samples as we go.

K, gimme 20.

actually gimme an hour or so, or someone else start

lol an hour it is. I would start but no data don't wanna purchase HEM just yet either will wait till i'm moving to 25nl. Anyone else with good ideas for threads speak up. Im currently thinking of a bet sizing one as i'v never really payed much attention to it and i think my sizing sucks in a lot of river spots. I'll wait to this thread gets up and running 1st though because evrryone can benefit greatly from it

Ok sometime in the next couple of hours, I've got Shit to do.

review lots of hands. focussing on ranges - fold equity and equity. if you feel like you have a particular leak then start mining HH's for that very specific spot and reviewing them as above. figure out where/why/if you are losing money, learn to hand-read in the process.