[2NL] KK 3bet pot...facing river shove.

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10-13-2012, 09:36 PM
Cobra_1878

[2NL] KK 3bet pot...facing river shove.

Only had 26 hands on villain. He was 15/8 and this was the first 3bet he had faced. This was the first opportunity he had to donk a flop and done it, he had a 100% cbet on flop, 2/2. That's pretty much all I got on him.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($1.66)
Button ($2.27)
SB ($2.01)
BB ($4.80)
UTG ($2.47)
Hero (MP) ($2.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif
UTG bets $0.06, Hero raises to $0.18, 4 folds, UTG calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.39) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG bets $0.18, Hero calls $0.18

Turn: ($0.75) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.50, UTG calls $0.50

River: ($1.75) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif (2 players)
UTG bets $1.61 (All-In), Hero ???

Pretty sure I am beat on the river, just wondering if my line was OK and what ranges people would assign villain.
10-13-2012, 09:39 PM
supa

There probably isn't anyone left that can help you with this.
10-13-2012, 11:19 PM
kmind

His line sucks. But the jack gives you the nut worse card on the river. Fold. I play it the same until that river and assume he has a set or straight with QQ.
10-14-2012, 07:42 AM
The Bean Counter

A 15/8 raises utg and calls a 3bet oop. His range is going to be pretty tight, although bad players at the micros have a tendency to set mine far too much oop in 3bet pots. I'd say range pre is {99+, AJs, AQ+}, with maybe 22-88 also thrown in there.

I doubt villain donks this flop if he hit his set or with overs in a 3bp but would donk it small with TT-QQ to "see where he's at". This makes the turn and river particularly shitty, especially given his c/c turn and shove river line.

Be interested to see if others think the flop call is optimal, as I'd be tempted to raise and get it in.
10-14-2012, 07:48 AM
rong

R/f flop.
10-14-2012, 09:13 AM
kickass

I raise call flop and don't feel slightly bad about it. I fold now though obv. You can raise fold flop if you know villain wont ship overpairs/draws but I don't know that.
10-14-2012, 11:17 AM
rong

I don't see an Utg nit (and those are nitty stats for 6m) turning up with TJ or 3b/shoving worse than QQ on the flop. Hence r/f on flop.
10-14-2012, 12:46 PM
kickass

26 hand sample.
I think yr prolly right if the guy is a nit but I can't fold Kings in a 3b pot very often at all.
10-14-2012, 12:56 PM
Imthenewfish

why is raising flop any better than calling? turn cards could kill action?
10-14-2012, 01:29 PM
WeldPhaser

hmm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bean Counter

, although bad players at the micros have a tendency to set mine far too much oop in 3bet pots. I'd say range pre is {99+, AJs, AQ+}, with maybe 22-88 also thrown in there.

Just curious bean. Are we giving villain to good odds to set-mine here?
10-14-2012, 01:44 PM
Hoopy

You should raise this flop for value. The reason is that his range for calling a 3bet here is QQ-99 and rarely AK which is discounted because of blockers.

When he leads we'll assume he has a good but non nut hand (QQ-TT), reasonable assumption vs a guy who is 15/8 over a small sample. Most will not lead a set, raise and stack QQ-TT.

Easy river fold.
10-14-2012, 01:54 PM
Hoopy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imthenewfish

why is raising flop any better than calling? turn cards could kill action?

There's only 6 bad cards (AK) but I guess we give him a chance to hit his 2 outer. I don't think he's bluffing with this lead, so getting more money in the pot is good right?
10-14-2012, 01:57 PM
sotekmedia

To me it looks like JJ, His line is weird. However this line is typical at micros.

easy fold imo.
10-16-2012, 04:12 PM
The Bean Counter

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeldPhaser

Just curious bean. Are we giving villain to good odds to set-mine here?

Only if we can't lay our hand down.

Technically, villain needs 7-1 to set mine here but conventional thinking is that he needs at least 15-1 when we take into account the times hero doesn't put another cent into the pot. Villain calls 12c and wins 92c before rake (assuming hero folds river), meaning he just about makes his 7-1 but is well short of the 15-1 he really needs.

Calling to set mine oop is a losing play against all but the biggest droolers and other bad players that go bust with tptk and overpairs. Only if you have a huge post-flop advantage should you consider it otherwise imo.