4nl(shallow) AKo, w/ a theorectical

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (6 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($5.10)
MP ($0.64)
Hero (CO) ($2)
Button ($2.57)
SB ($2.09)
BB ($5.40)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif
2 folds, Hero bets $0.12, Button calls $0.12, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.30) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $0.20, Button calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.70) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button raises to $2.25 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $0.70 | Rake: $0.04

Ok, so I'm waiting for pt4 to download on my new lap, and just kinda breathing in on my table. I was gonna be ready to 3b this and I started thinking:

Should I be 3b'ing smaller on shallow tables?

if I 3b to .48 here , a 4b is essentially AI' right?????

where would this 3bet you speak of occur? PF? and if you were BU 3bing over CO open or....?
4x 3b seems like overkill to me unless YOU want to get it in.

(50bb effective) like hes CO opens 3x, you 3b BU 4x. 1.5 bb + 3bb + 12bb = 16.5bb pot.
you have 38bb left. seems like to 4b/continue to a 4b would have to be AI (or commited). Theres some math to this.... (enter math dude).

At the shallow tables implied odds tend to be non existent, calling 3bets to setmine or with suited connectors is usually a big mistake at 50BB.

4bet would be all in for sure. If we make it 3BB, they 3bet to 12BB and we 4bet to 21BB, then if they shove we get close to correct odds to call usually, which isn't great as we commit ourselves when way behind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hoopy

4bet would be all in for sure. If we make it 3BB, they 3bet to 12BB and we 4bet to 21BB.

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So. are we saying a 3b of .48(12bb's) is fine for shallow tables?

what are you trying to accomplish by 3 betting? Dunno 4x seems big to me cuz it'll fold out hands you would probly want to call and and the hands that continue will call/4b with hands that stomp AK. By then pot will be big and hard to get out of.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WeaselT

what are you trying to accomplish by 3 betting? Dunno 4x seems big to me cuz it'll fold out hands you would probly want to call and and the hands that continue will call/4b with hands that stomp AK. By then pot will be big and hard to get out of.

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Right, you nailed it Wease. I was thinking more like 9-10bb's on the shallow table.

This became an issue with me before when I started up playing again on the shallows. My 3b% was like 3% because I was 3b'ing 12x all the time to give set-miners shitty odds. In turn I was only 3b'ing JJ+(maybe TT), and I had a gap in my vpip/pfr of like 8-9. Pretty much because of this

I think your sizes is good and you play well the hand...but i don´t play in shallow tables, may be the dynamics are a little bit differnts

Right, I'm really thinking one of the biggest things is that implied odds aren't really there.....

But I would like to hear something from bikes or anyone else about this subject.. Since I'm prob gonna put in another 1000+ hands on shallow.(I'm rusty as shit)

if you are looking for a sizing which will work well for a range of both value and bluff hands i'd go like 2-2.5x IP and 2.5-3x OOP. if you are never 3b bluffing in these games (absolutely no idea how they play) i'd just experiment with sizes a bit and take note of what is "standard" and basically look to 3b as much as most of the player pool will still call with dominated shit vs. also, look to be dynamic on your sizing. many fish wont significantly alter their calling range vs 2.5x, 3x or 4x. i'd only employ "standard" sizes versus any regs you encounter who might be paying attention.

fwiw i think 3betting 4x IP as standard is too big even for 100bb effective stacks if you plan to 3b bluff at all

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rpm

fwiw i think 3betting 4x IP as standard is too big even for 100bb effective stacks if you plan to 3b bluff at all

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Right, I do 3b bluff at these tables to try and capitalize on fold equity.