77 in BB

This was a FR table btw, was just a little shorthanded at the time.

Villain is 17/9 over 58 hands.

Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

CO: $0.76 (38 bb)
BTN: $3 (150 bb)
SB: $3.50 (175 bb)
Hero (BB): $5.04 (252 bb)
UTG: $10.18 (509 bb)
MP: $3.50 (175 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7:club: 7:heart:
UTG calls $0.02, MP calls $0.02, CO folds, BTN calls $0.02, SB folds, Hero raises to $0.10, UTG folds, MP calls $0.08, BTN calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.33) A:heart: 8:heart: T:diamond: (3 players)
Hero bets $0.25, MP calls $0.25, BTN folds

Turn: ($0.83) 7:spade: (2 players)
Hero bets $0.45, MP raises to $1.81, Hero ??


Okay so looking back I'd like to hear feedback on every street I played here. The BB open I think is okay, but should probably have been larger due to being OOP. But the C-bet I don't like as much given how draw heavy the board is, I doubt I'm getting a lot of folds.

And then obviously I turn a set but when I get raised here I start to think I might be crushed. 88, TT, J9s. I rule out flush draws here as he probably would have raised the flop with a FD. About the only thing I think I could beat here would be AT, A8. I can't exactly call so I have to shove or fold.

But yeah feedback on all streets would be appreciated.

Raise bigger pre or just check. I think they both have their merits, but I lean toward iso'ing when we're this deep (we're 150+bb deep against everyone and 500bb deep against UTG).

C/F flop. Just think about what hands call and which ones fold and you're realize you're really not accomplishing anything with it.

Turn, we're worried about J9s and 88, both of which are discounted a bit? I really can't see anything but shoving here. I don't know what "kind" of player villain is per se, but there are like 7-ish combos of hands that beat us and there are all sorts of two pairs and draws and pair+draws out there.

BTW, what the hell is with your turn sizing?!?!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mondayscool

This was a FR table btw, was just a little shorthanded at the time.

Villain is 17/9 over 58 hands.

Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

CO: $0.76 (38 bb)
BTN: $3 (150 bb)
SB: $3.50 (175 bb)
Hero (BB): $5.04 (252 bb)
UTG: $10.18 (509 bb)
MP: $3.50 (175 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7:club: 7:heart:
UTG calls $0.02, MP calls $0.02, CO folds, BTN calls $0.02, SB folds, Hero raises to $0.10, UTG folds, MP calls $0.08, BTN calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.33) A:heart: 8:heart: T:diamond: (3 players)
Hero bets $0.25, MP calls $0.25, BTN folds

Turn: ($0.83) 7:spade: (2 players)
Hero bets $0.45, MP raises to $1.81, Hero ??


Okay so looking back I'd like to hear feedback on every street I played here. The BB open I think is okay, but should probably have been larger due to being OOP. But the C-bet I don't like as much given how draw heavy the board is, I doubt I'm getting a lot of folds.

And then obviously I turn a set but when I get raised here I start to think I might be crushed. 88, TT, J9s. I rule out flush draws here as he probably would have raised the flop with a FD. About the only thing I think I could beat here would be AT, A8. I can't exactly call so I have to shove or fold.

But yeah feedback on all streets would be appreciated.

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I would have popped it to like 16cents pre/jam over turn raise? That's how I feel. You hit gin in a sense of the one turn card you were hoping for and people will totally stack off with worse in this spot. Why are you affraid now that you hit your set? Only hand that got there was J9. Also I agree with surviva on c/f flop. You're not folding out any hands that really beat you or have large equity on such a wet board. As played Jam turn.

Also agree/bet like close to full pot. You're trying to get stacks in if at all possible on this gin card; preferably before seeing a river that might destroy your equity.

Normally I would just check pre-flop, but given stack sizes I don't mind a raise to set things up for if we do hit. Flop I just c/f, I'm not sure what would be a worse flop to c-bet on. This is the worst part of the whole hand as played imo.

Lots of money in on the turn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by surviva316

Raise bigger pre or just check. I think they both have their merits, but I lean toward iso'ing when we're this deep (we're 150+bb deep against everyone and 500bb deep against UTG).

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While I agree on raising pre-flop, for me its not to isolate, its to juice the pot when we're playing deep with a hand that can hit really good multi-way.

Nice raise pre to juice the pot, if everyone was shorter I'd probably check.

Don't cbet this board oop vs 2 people with this hand, the only turn we like is a 7. Also most people will play any Ax at 2NL and with the draw possibilities you won't get folds.

Pot turn to set up river, shove over his raise.

I think I check pre as there are so many callers and we are OOP. On the flop is pretty much always a c/f given we are OOP and 3 overcards have hit on the flop. Chances are at least one person already has you beat here. Turn being a 7 puts you in a difficult spot that you shouldn't have been in in the first place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

Turn being a 7 puts you in a difficult spot that you shouldn't have been in in the first place.

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How does hitting our set ott put us in a difficult spot?
From the pf action we're prolly golden.

Even though we're deep I really hate tossing 7 or 8 bb into the pot just to mostly c/f otf. I'd check to see the free flop.
c/f flop.
turn bet big around pot size and then shove over his raise.
:shipit: - reload :cry:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shotglass

How does hitting our set ott put us in a difficult spot?
From the pf action we're prolly golden.

Even though we're deep I really hate tossing 7 or 8 bb into the pot just to mostly c/f otf. I'd check to see the free flop.
c/f flop.
turn bet big around pot size and then shove over his raise.
:shipit: - reload :cry:

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Are you saying it's not possible for someone to limp in with J9s then call a raise, IP, to see the flop? Or even with 88 for that matter?

I wouldn't say the turn is a difficult spot. We might have been coolered, but it's a pretty easy decision on the turn. All of the chips. Win often, lose sometimes, whatever.

Check pre, c/f flop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

While I agree on raising pre-flop, for me its not to isolate, its to juice the pot when we're playing deep with a hand that can hit really good multi-way.

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I don't like committing 5bb's to purposefully put us in the position of c/f'ing most flops. Pricing people in just seems like a strange concept with a very speculative hand OOP in a multi-way pot. How are we making the villains make a mistake by calling getting like 4:1 in position with the intention of playing fit or fold in a pot where no one's planning on bluffing players out of the pot?

I'm not certain that the concept is wrong; I just don't know where we're making villain make a mistake/pay for the mistake they already made by limping a speculative range when we price everyone in to see the flop this deep and don't plan on ever bluffing.

Maybe next month's conceptualization will be on how the number of coolers you get involved in is directly correlative to the sum of 1) how OOP you play your hands [plus] 2) how low you keep SPRs [plus] 3) how multi-way you keep pots.

This means that purposefully keeping pots multi-way and SPRs high when you're OOP is gonna get you coolered a lot, and it's going to sucker players into paying you off less (the deeper you get, the more position trumps skill).

raise pre to juice is good
flop cbet is fine, probably better than checking
turn bet is too small

Quote:

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Originally Posted by surviva316

I don't like committing 5bb's to purposefully put us in the position of c/f'ing most flops. Pricing people in just seems like a strange concept with a very speculative hand OOP in a multi-way pot. How are we making the villains make a mistake by calling getting like 4:1 in position with the intention of playing fit or fold in a pot where no one's planning on bluffing players out of the pot?

I'm not certain that the concept is wrong; I just don't know where we're making villain make a mistake/pay for the mistake they already made by limping a speculative range when we price everyone in to see the flop this deep and don't plan on ever bluffing.

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You're creating a situation where they can make a bigger mistake postflop.

i typically check this pre but raising could well be better so we build a pot to get the deep stacks in when we hit. for that reason i actually don't mind your small preflop sizing because we kind of want this to go multiway. that reasoning could be bad though. flop CB is pretty bad imo, nothing better folds, nothing worse calls. come to think of it i doubt we get folds from both villains very often at all, so we are burning money on all but two turn cards. as played bet bigger on turn. at least $0.65. i'm not so sure about jamming really. wouldnt most villains be inclined to raise any sets/aces up they made on the flop given stack depth? i'm not saying shoving is necessarily bad, but im not sold on it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

Are you saying it's not possible for someone to limp in with J9s then call a raise, IP, to see the flop? Or even with 88 for that matter?

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I didn't say that - i said :shipit: and reload if necessary
From the pf action we could be against a whole miriad of shit hands that hit - TPTK, TP+shit kicker, 2 pr etc. His line looks like it could be a float and steal. However, if I'm getting coolered by set over set (or someone who was willing to go mutli-way holding a one-gapper) then so be it; a set isn't 100% to win - ever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shotglass

a set isn't 100% to win - ever.

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except for the times when it is actually 100% to win ;)

why is there any issue with shipping this turn? The only issue for me is whether you call and ship the river or ship now. But as its 2nl shipping early wont tell your opponent anything when he has AT or 89 or some other hand