34s facing maniac in pos IMPLIED ODDS??

This guy was a complete maniac... he was 75-50 over 50 hands.. he likes to shove a lot as a bluff.. I had seen him stack off 100bb pre with 9 10. I know on the turn I didn't have pot odds to call but is the call ok with the implied odds. I was thinking if I hit he would bluff after I showed weakness. I want to know if my logic makes any sense or if I am burning money.

Merge Network $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em - 7 players
CO: $4.08
BTN: $3.23
SB: $5.46
BB: $14.02
UTG: $2.70
UTG+1: $3.25
Hero (MP): $3.26

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero is MP with 4 :heart: 3 :heart:
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.12, 2 folds, SB calls $0.10, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.28) 9 :heart: 5 :club: 7 :diamond: (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($0.28) A :diamond: (2 players)
SB bets $0.14, Hero calls $0.14???? is this +EV

River: ($0.56) 2 :club: (2 players)
SB bets $0.42, Hero raises to $1.00, SB raises to $5.20 all in, Hero calls $2 all in

EDIT** I know this is a stack size fail too. I will fix that today.

My two cents... fold pre, raise more on river, turn is fine.

This guy hasn't got a fold button, so why are you stealing with 34?

You called turn, which is fine with implied odds, but your raise when called does not give us the required pot size to make the turn call good. I'd just shove, I doubt this guy folds anything to a shove that he calls a min raise with.

Also, bear in mind you haven't got the nuts. That means you aren't going to win this at showdown 100% of the time. He can have all combos that beat you. It's hard to say how often this guy actually beats you due his monumental range size and we don't know what he calls with, but it's enough to need us to win more when we are good to pay for the times he has better.

So yeah, you need more value on river. He's calling very wide so just shove imo.

Preflop is terrible, very -EV open

Probably bet flop.

Turn you only have 3 clean outs vs someone who likes to bluff a lot, so no implied odds.

Fold pre, give up flop, fold turn.

For implied odds, we want (odds)*(bet) - (pot) < (effective stack size)
Odds* bet = how much we need to win to make a +EV call.
Subtract the pot, since that's immediate odds and we're trying to figure out implied odds.
That value is how much MORE you need to win to make this call +EV. Hero and Villain must both have at least this amount and be willing to bet it to make the call +EV.

Best case scenario is that Hero has 21% equity; odds 79:21 ~= 4:1. ESS = $3.

(4)*(0.14) - (0.28) ?<? 3 ----> 0.28 < 3 TRUE

This is a good situation to call based on implied odds, BUT that assumes Hero is willing to bet/call at least 1/2 pot (0.28 needed / 0.56 in pot) w/ BPNK and Villain is going to cooperate w/ no pr.

More likely: Hero must catch the straight to win at showdown. Hero has 4 outs with 1 card to come, so ~9% equity; odds 91:9 ~= 10:1. ESS = $3.

(10)*(0.14) - (0.28) ?<? 3 ----> 1.12 < 3 TRUE

So, again, this is a good call assuming you can get an additional $1.12 from Villain (really $1.13 to make it +EV). That's a 2x pot bet on the river, which it sounds like this villain will gladly call down with Ax.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

Also, bear in mind you haven't got the nuts. That means you aren't going to win this at showdown 100% of the time. He can have all combos that beat you. It's hard to say how often this guy actually beats you due his monumental range size and we don't know what he calls with, but it's enough to need us to win more when we are good to pay for the times he has better.
.

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EDITED** cause i am a tard
You say he can have combos that beat me?? 6 8 is the only one? i am sorry i don't understand

Also one person is saying 3 outs and another 4 outs??

Is there not 8 outs?? either 2 or 6 give me a str8

I am sorry to sound dumb but I am lost

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gotigers1234

What beats a str8 here on the river?

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86

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gotigers1234

Also one person is saying 3 outs and another 4 outs??

Is there not 8 outs?? either 2 or 6 give me a str8

I am sorry to sound dumb but I am lost

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Any 6 does give you a straight, but also puts 4 to a higher straight on the board, giving any 8x hand a higher straight.

And hoopy said 3 "clean" outs referring to the fact that one of the 2s brings about the possibilities of a flush (2d).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stacks

Any 6 does give you a straight, but also puts 4 to a higher straight on the board, giving any 8x hand a higher straight.

And hoopy said 3 "clean" outs referring to the fact that one of the 2s brings about the possibilities of a flush (2d).

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OK I see thank you for the explanation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gotigers1234

What beats a str8 here on the river?

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A bigger straight. Pocket 86 flops a straight.

I make it a practice to identify the nuts, 2nd nuts, ..., 5th nuts on every board. Board reading is fundamental skill. The auto hand ranking in online poker makes us all a bit lazy, I'd guess. Anything that keeps me focused on the game and thinking about lines is good for me. Also, this helps hugely when transitioning from HE to PLO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

A bigger straight. Pocket 86 flops a straight.

I make it a practice to identify the nuts, 2nd nuts, ..., 5th nuts on every board. Board reading is fundamental skill. The auto hand ranking in online poker makes us all a bit lazy, I'd guess. Anything that keeps me focused on the game and thinking about lines is good for me. Also, this helps hugely when transitioning from HE to PLO.

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Yeah this is something I should definitely work on. I didn't even think about a higher str8 not during or after the hand.... lol whats funny is I thought I had played this hand well..lol OH WELL back to drawing boards

So consensus is BURNING MONEY. So against this type of player I should be tightening up?? How would you guys play this guy? At first he kept 3 betting me pre and I would just fold b/c he was unknown.. but after a few showdowns i started playing back and I figured I should just get into as many hands as possible in pos with this guy and play bingo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gotigers1234

EDITED** cause i am a tard
You say he can have combos that beat me?? 6 8 is the only one? i am sorry i don't understand

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I simply meant he can have it suited or off suit. 68 is not one combo, it's many combos. 8d6h is one combo.

fold pre, not deep enough for this type of shit
fold turn, not close

Against this guy, we aren't playing tight, but there are others at the table. When you raise to "isolate" with a hand this weak the CO and BTN ranges have you crushed if they flat behind you, with the likelihood of the SB coming along for the ride.

If it was me, I would keep my EP and MP ranges pretty much the same, opening up a bit in the CO and then more on the BTN. There, raising to isolate works better, and you have position if you do end up multiway.

It takes some thinking when you have a range weaker than you're used to playing, but he should be trapping himself. Jam top pair hands and 2 pair decent kicker.

And be ready for some variance.

The problem is that against guys who don't like to fold and will randomly just spew off you really need to be ready to fearlessly value bet and call 'em down with 1 pair or even Ace high if you figure to be in good shape against their absurd range.

So you really need high card strength, even if it's a hand that figures to be in trouble against a tighter defend. Any 2 cards 8 or higher would be a MUCH stronger open against a guy like this than a hand like 34s (which really wants more fold equity and will end up dominated too often when he calls with J4o and T3o.)