The same hand before and after acquiring an important piece of info

Villain is 65/20/81af over 30 hands.
No major confrontations before getting into this hand:

OnGame - €0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3:

SB: €3.68
BB: €11.23
UTG: €4.86
MP: €1.50
Hero (CO): €3.89
BTN: €2.40

SB posts SB €0.02, BB posts BB €0.05, MP posts DB €0.05

Pre Flop: (€0.12) Hero has Qs Qd

fold, MP raises to €0.10, Hero raises to €0.35, fold, fold, BB calls €0.30, MP calls €0.25

Flop: (€1.07, 3 players) Jc 8c 2h
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets €0.65, BB calls €0.65, fold

Turn: (€2.37, 2 players) Ks
BB bets €2.37,
Hero?




A dozen hands later this:

OnGame - €0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3:

BTN: €3.52
SB: €10.57
BB: €3.76
UTG: €2.54
Hero (MP): €4.00
CO: €4.71

SB posts SB €0.02, BB posts BB €0.05

Pre Flop: (€0.07) Hero has Kh Kd

fold, Hero raises to €0.20, CO calls €0.20, BTN calls €0.20, SB calls €0.18, fold

Flop: (€0.85, 4 players) 5s 7d 8d
SB bets €0.85, Hero raises to €3.80 and is all-in, fold, fold, SB calls €2.95

Turn: (€8.45, 2 players) Td

River: (€8.45, 2 players) 3c

SB shows Qc 8c (One Pair, Eights) (Pre 18%, Flop 19%, Turn 9%)
Hero shows Kh Kd (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 82%, Flop 81%, Turn 91%)
Hero wins €7.99




So what do you do on the first hand without relevant info, except maniac play on a very small sample?

And what if the second hand happened before the first? Does it make it a snap-call with the queens?


Bear with me if these seem (and probably are) very fishy questions.
You know, baby steps. Just starting from the basics.

A ridiculous call with Kx, especially KXs, is certainly possible there, then suddenly waking up on the turn and potting it is not particularly unlikely from this kind of player.

If you laid down QQ, I don't hate that, even after seeing the second hand, since this kind of player will often call down with no equity whatsoever and go nuts when they hit a card.

Perhaps it's just to do with my own level of play, but I actually find these kinds of players some of the hardest to get a read on. It takes time to feel out their particular brand of insanity, and you have to see a few showdowns. I think you need a good solid mentality, and with patience you generally stack them soon enough, but this kind of opponent can be tilting and you need to guard against that.

First hand, fold turn, swear, and wait for a better spot. Only takes a dozen hands or so...

Love tha avatar. All hail Domo.
http://inessential.com/images/run_liberal_run.jpg

I'm not folding H1 against this maniac, he's just clicking buttons too often

Quote:

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Originally Posted by d0zer

I'm not folding H1 against this maniac, he's just clicking buttons too often

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Really? He c/c flop then pot size donks the turn, this screams KJ or K8 imo. I realise he has worse in his range sometimes, but I don't often see fish take this bluff line very often. If he is bluffing, then he's going to pay us off sooner or later, this is where patience comes in for me. I'm not folding top pair or better against this guy, but this turn turns our hand from a monster into a bluff catcher at best. I don't think this is a bluff often enough for us to make this call. I could be wrong, but I'm not expecting villain to show AJ very often now.

I think your reasoning would be fine if villain looked more standard passivefish, but this villain is shaping up to be too much of a maniac for me to limit his range that much. As for waiting for a better spot, well maniacs go broke quick and if you have to wait for a spot where you're really comfortable you're passing up opportunities to make manies.

I folded the queens.
At that point, with no showdown info, I was pretty sure it was the best move.

Not sure anymore after his call on the second hand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by d0zer

I think your reasoning would be fine if villain looked more standard passivefish, but this villain is shaping up to be too much of a maniac for me to limit his range that much. As for waiting for a better spot, well maniacs go broke quick and if you have to wait for a spot where you're really comfortable you're passing up opportunities to make manies.

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Perhaps I do underestimate how often villains like this show up with junk in these spots. But with "no major confrontations" in 30 hands, I'm still not convinced this guy is enough of a maniac to show up with worse then queens here. In H2, he stacks top pair shit kicker in a raised pot, that's what I expect fish to do, not stack middle pair on turn after c/c flop. I expect 2nd pair to station down. He c/c flop in H1, that indicates to me he has hit the flop but not hard enough to ejaculate, so I don't think he has KJ because H2 shows us he's likely to b/c or b/r this. So I'm giving him K8 K2 KQ and every Kx club combo. That's pretty horrible for QQ facing a psb, that's why I fold. Also, without the info I gather from H2, I have KJ in his c/c range on flop.

What range are you giving him on the turn after he donks?

range? you don't use ranges against maniacs, you just see pair and click call.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by d0zer

range? you don't use ranges against maniacs, you just see pair and click call.

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lol nice. You're probably right, I'm losing value against these type of fish, guess I need to grow some balls.