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Started looking at this concept after some pointers from daven, and found this in "Getting Started in Hold 'em" by Ed Miller:
"Small stacks tend to eliminate difficult decisions...I strongly suggest that beginners play small stacks wherever possible".
As I understand it, playing shortstacked reduces the number of possible betting rounds, and so moves the adavantage away from postflop strategy to preflop equity.
What are your views on this please, BC?
i think noobies like myself should stick with 100 bb poker. I think shortstacking anywhere between 20-50 bb is probably pretty easy up to some level. I don't know the exact treshold but i think the finesses that come with profitable shortstacking are underestimated. Most people look down upon shortstacking and say things like ' anyone can shortstack ' . I don't agree, being really good at shortstacking requires studying situations just as much as 'normal' 100 bb pokersituations in general. That being said i think it's better to start off playing 100 bb poker to really get decent fundamentals on the game. You'll get better at assesing ranges , strategy and tactics. I also believe that anywhere below 50nl maybe 100nl you are better of playing 100 bb in terms of profitability. There are enough weak players to exploit for 100 bb. Rather want to exploit people for 100 bb than for 20-50 bb.
deepstack poker means 150 bb + stacks to me and i agree it is probably the best idea to first prove yourself in the 100 bb game and being really confident and good at this before you dip into the big boys game
Thanks fellaQuote:
Originally Posted by TheLongGrind
yeh, I was thinking that this was the drawback in Miller's advice; how you gonna get good at something if you never practice it? [oooh errrrr ;)]
I'll re-read the section in the book, but I don't recall any definition of what a "Beginner" is, and when you stop being one.
BTW - whereabouts in Belgium are you?
yeah Belgium sucks though in regards to online poker. Ah well at least it's finally legal o n pokerstars.beQuote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
yay. have some carbonnade avec stoemp to celebrate :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by TheLongGrind
R u also a Belgian degenerate? I'm flemish so i'm speaking dutch. What limit's r u currently playing , maybe we noobs can sweat some sessions and talk poker togetherQuote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
nah, just a big fan of Bruxelles, Bruges and Belgian cuisine.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLongGrind
And beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer :drunk:
Ik spreek geen Nederlands :(Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLongGrind
Ja. goed ideeQuote:
Originally Posted by TheLongGrind
Currently 5NL 6-Max Cash on 'Stars
probably not a bad idea to avoid playing deep, especially OOP, if you don't feel like you have at least a decent understanding of the strategic implications of stack depth
Not sure what he means by a small stack but this is the advice that I always give to beginners. I think should start out with 100bb. If they have success/feel comfortable then take advantage of the ability to buyin deep at NL2 or NL5 at stars. Or play the deep tables at NL10 and above. They definitely should not buyin deep to start though. There are more difficult decisions for sure.
Sorry - should have included this in the OP. According to Miller:Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRain79
25BB or less = Short Stack
Between 25BB an 100BB = Medium
More than 100BB = Big Stack
How do you expect to learn how to handle difficult decisions if you just avoid them?Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
Play full stacked, but very low stakes.
Ed Miller is incorrect IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
Hello M2M - care to expand on that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
playing short stacked doesn't mean your decisions will automatically be simplified.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
your potential edge will likely be smaller than playing deep so seemingly 'small mistakes' can actually be quite costly to your bottom line. if anything beginners should start at 100bb because there's actually room to miss value with that stack size because the donks will just give u tons of implied odds when you have big hands. your implied odds are very limited with a short stack so giving up edges becomes more of problem.
I agree with M2M to a certain extent.
However, I would much rather see a new player aggressively play a 40-50bb stack than I would have him timidly play 100.
There's a lot to be said for being able to create low SPRs and going for 3 fearless streets of value with TPTK type hands.
Sure you don't have as good of implied odds, but neither does your opponents. You are causing them to make fundamental mistakes when they set mine your raise getting around 11 to 1 stack odds.