Note/Adusment Q & A

I was talking with RPM about a couple hands where I see players do "note worthy" things and then planning the most EV+ way to exploit this. I edited the convo a bit for readability. Post your own hands/ note question and everyone can answer!

Chatzilla:

sup
once u note this down
what is the most EV+ way to use this info


villain is a weak tight 16/7 nit

$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars
9 Players

Stacks:
UTG Gadelha_ba ($30.20)
UTG+1 xlcthnagr8f ($108.15)
MP1 calamaroweb ($26.40)
MP2 ssani64 ($43.85)
MP3 Cherman99 ($74.15)
CO deadkiller1 ($73.25)
BTN TonnaMunz ($50)
SB Pr0fiteer ($50)
BB jorge medina ($52.60)

Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 9 players) TonnaMunz is BTN :qh: :9s:
Gadelha_ba calls $0.50, 5 folds, TonnaMunz raises to $2, 2 folds, Gadelha_ba calls $1.50

Flop: :as: :2d: :3s: ($4.75, 2 players)
Gadelha_ba checks, TonnaMunz bets $2.85, Gadelha_ba calls $2.85

Turn: :8s: ($10.45, 2 players)
Gadelha_ba checks, TonnaMunz bets $6, Gadelha_ba calls $6

River: :9c: ($22.45, 2 players)
Gadelha_ba checks, TonnaMunz checks

Final Pot: $22.45
TonnaMunz shows a pair of Nines
:qh: :9s:
Gadelha_ba shows a pair of Fours
:4s: :4h:

TonnaMunz wins $21.40 (net +$10.55)

Gadelha_ba lost $10.85




bet bet check 2nd pair hands for value?
things like that


RPM:
ummm
yeah lower your standards for vbetting. especially on the flop and turn. because he is liable to be calling you down on those two streets with a ton of marginal equity hands
so F+T value betting ranges are stronger.
and also i'd look to fire three streets with a lot of draws (if there are a decent amount of scare cards which can fall) because we have so much implied fold equity going to the river because his range is weak as piss
so basically, from that hand you see he calls F+T with verrrrrry weak draws or pair+draw hands. so his calling ranges over the hand go
flop: really weak
turn: really weak
river: he gets there weak but we don't know if he stations so much on the river (because he has missed draws a lot)
so flop and turn are huge value streets. i'd just treat him as a normal slightly stationy villain o the river until you get a read he stations there as well
UNTIL then i'd be firing 3 with more draws because he folds so much. and if he calls you down light once or twice when you 3barrel bluff, then that is fucking awesome because we've found ourselves a 3-street-station. and we then know to just value bet like fuckin crazy


Chatzilla:
yeah sick
thats what i was thinking
coz obv he gets to river with a super weak range, common sense would assume hes folding out a lot
but if he calls down light, we pay for it once and find that out


RPM:
yeah. which is awesome for us. but if we find out he stations on the river as well. that's even better
this guy has such a huge lack of balance across three streets that he can't really play well. if he adjusts to us bluffing 3 streets (which is correct to do) that just makes it better for us
because we value town him


Chatzilla:
another hand

50/0 1 talber (20 hands)

$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars
9 Players

Stacks:
UTG TonnaMunz ($53.95)
UTG+1 KING_ILL ($13.15)
MP1 marianoboni ($52.60)
MP2 LickerGigolo ($26.40)
MP3 Pr0fiteer ($67.90)
CO torresmojf ($77.65)
BTN adrianc2 ($57.85)
SB mcZAG ($50)
BB mab911 ($47.35)

Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 9 players) TonnaMunz is UTG :as: :kd:
TonnaMunz raises to $1.50, 7 folds, mab911 calls $1

Flop: :2s: :qs: :8s: ($3.25, 2 players)
mab911 checks, TonnaMunz bets $2, mab911 calls $2

Turn: :4d: ($7.25, 2 players)
mab911 checks, TonnaMunz bets $4, mab911 folds

Final Pot: $11.25

TonnaMunz wins $10.90 (net +$3.40)

mab911 lost $3.50


folding turn brick when nothing changes
barrel the sheeit out of him i assume


RPM:
for starters
if there's a mega whale in the blinds i don't mind adjusting my EP opens up 0.5bb or 1bb. most regs know how nitty we are UTG and wont give us much action when we have a monster anyway. and a 50/0 never folds when they have 50c already in the pot.

stationy on flop = weak range on turn (more susceptible to 2 barrel bluffs).stationy on turn = weak range on river (more susceptible to 3 barrel bluffs), stationy on river = weak range at SD (susceptible to getting absolutely value fucked in the ass)
(and not very susceptible to bluffs at all)


Chatzilla:
yeah sick
alright ill make thread with those 2 hands
did u want me to post your responses or make it like a question
and be like ill post answers later


RPM:
nah just post it straight up. the days of people doing work in the BC post-spoonitnow are gone


Chatzilla:
lol kk

*Adjustment

mods fix the title if you can be bothered haha ty

caveat:

it should be mentioned that there is a lot of important stuff which is missed out of that convo which is relevant to the topic. board texture is a huge one - we shouldn't be firing three barrels indiscriminately on all boards (against villain in hand 1). we want it to be boards like

8h 6s 4s Td Kh

where villain's flop and turn ranges contain a ton of weak draws and single pair + draw hands (which we know from our notes) which will peel the flop and turn liberally, but often wind up with a mediocre one pair hand and/or missed draw on the river (for example - T9,98,87,76,65,54,43 as well all as all the flush draws - on the above board). this runout is obviously pretty ridiculously perfect to fire 3 on, they're not always this sweet. but you get the idea.

the other thing is pot equity. betting with pot equity always has a significantly higher EV in a vacuum than betting with no equity at all. that's why semi-bluffing is cooler than pure bluffing most of the time - the term "semi-bluff" implies we have pot equity. so if we have a decent amount of pot equity with a non-made hand (FD, OESD + 2 overs) AND some fold equity then we generally should be being aggressive. "pot equity + fold equity = aggression" - Spoonitnow

ALSO, every time i said "susceptible", pretend i said "vulnerable". not sure if susceptible even works in that context.

villain 1 is still relatively tight preflop, so keep that in mind postflop when going for thinner value. like, Axxtt whiffs his range unless you think that he's limp/calling a lot of Axs, his range is weak, our multistreet bluffs and valuebets are obv going to be better because playing vs weak ranges is fun.

villain 2- on the flop, most of his range is going to fold, call and fold a later street, or call down, with some weird donk bets/check minraises(probably very uncommon compared to c/f or c/c). he folded on a brick on a fairly wet flop, so he'll probably be folding when he doesn't improve on dry flops as well. rule of thumb: bet big for value, big on dry flops, less on wet flops

you're probably going to do badly with pr0fxxitxxeer sitting to your immediate left.
the player in the first hand is unlikely to be a 16-7 nit, and you basically learn not much from this hand except that he pays to try and hit low-out draws. You don't learn much about what ranges to value bet against him.

gotta shove the river in hand 1

overadjusting because of 1 hand is def a mistake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bikes

gotta shove the river in hand 1

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i have so much to learn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bikes

gotta shove the river in hand 1 .

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i don't see this.

I see I could barrel the river there at least. :drunk:

16/7 over 100 hands

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daven

i don't see this.

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+1

so after hand one you guys aren't noting anything on this player?

Errr...I am noting... :
set mining scumbag
doesn't have fullstack, so not only scumbag but a fish too
fish open limps 44 UTG, floats gutshot for two streets (A23 fd), checks bricked river
general notes: make him pay the shit out of draws on every street.

Nice post chatzill.

Hand one, I do wonder what your cbet % on the flop and turn are in the eyes of the villain. What's your 3 bet%, I assume its high. (is your pre flop raise still a 3 bet with one limper?)

Villains only a 16/7, not exactly a calling station .

in hand one he doesnt 3bet, he just preflop raises. also, preflop statistics don't necessarily tell you how someone plays postflop imo. although they do give you some idea about what they are likely to do.

hand 1 i would not bet $6 on the turn unless i wanted to bluff shove the river. it likely folds out all bad pairs and a lot of crappy aces and possibly some good ones as well. it is absurdly unlikely that he can call here with like A7 and even more unlikely he has better than 1 pair like ever unless he spiked like A9

if i wanted to vb the bet would be bigger so the river shove would be less

if i wanted to bluff again and shut down rivers id bet like $4 which i would probably not do all that much

betting 6 ott is just button clicking without a river plan imo.

It is remarkable, rather amusing idea

played a hand similar to H1 today thought about shipping river but thought he could still call with weak kings. What he shows down with is kinda why i wouldn't think to ship river in H1

PokerStars - $0.50 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 9 players

BB: $57.00
UTG: $50.00
UTG+1: $31.95 21/3 1 tabling weak tight player 100% f2cbet (2/2) (40 hands)
MP: $50.00
MP+1: $45.35
Hero (LP): $101.40
CO: $25.90
BTN: $7.90
SB: $51.95

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero has A:heart: 7:diamond:

fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, fold, fold, Hero raises to $2.00, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG+1 calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.75, 2 players) J:spade: K:heart: 6:heart:
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $3.00, UTG+1 calls $3.00

Turn: ($10.75, 2 players) 9:heart:
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $7.00, UTG+1 calls $7.00

River: ($24.75, 2 players) 3:club:
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks

UTG+1 shows A:club: K:spade: (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 73%, Flop 94%, Turn 80%)
Hero mucks A:heart: 7:diamond: (High Card, Ace) (Pre 27%, Flop 6%, Turn 20%)
UTG+1 wins $23.55