medium pairs preflop facing EP raise w/ LAG behind

This is more of a general questions about lines in this spot and about set-mining rather than based on a specific hand.

In a 10NL full ring game, we have something like 9http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/im...es/diamond.gif9http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/im...ilies/club.gif in middle position w/ a LAG on the button who (obviously) likes to raise a lot & 3bet light sometimes. We are facing an UTG raise from a reg. Everyone is full stacked, and there are no reads. It's a standard 3bb raise and 2 folds. Are we pretty much always calling here rather than 3beting?

Now let's say we call, 1 fold, the LAG button reraises to 10bb, blinds fold, UTG calls. Pot is now 24.5bb with 7bb to call. Are we still always calling here just hoping to hit a set and ready to let it go otherwise?

i am never 3betting TT on a UTG reg. but always calling. as for the 3bet for the lag, yes, i am calling it down with the LAG and UTG in the pot and play for a set, you cant fold TT when you need to call 7bb and you have 2 full stacked opps in the pot, where the LAG probably gonna stack of with TPTK or overpairs when we hit. we have very good implied odds to call there

With the lag to the left, we have to tighten up, flat calling here its perfect.
We could even flat call with KK+ if we knew he would be raising here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by celtic123

With the lag to the left, we have to tighten up, flat calling here its perfect.
We could even flat call with KK+ if we knew he would be raising here.

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I agree with the first sentence. The second one, not so much.

With KK+ I'd be going for value against the reg by 3betting and if the lag comes along for the ride, so be it. If he gets super aggro and 4bets so much the better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rowhousepd

Now let's say we call, 1 fold, the LAG button reraises to 10bb, blinds fold, UTG calls. Pot is now 24.5bb with 7bb to call. Are we still always calling here just hoping to hit a set and ready to let it go otherwise?

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That depends upon stack sizes and all of the things that made you decide to call the first time. It's a whole new decision but more often than not you won't have the odds to continue to set mine iin a 3bet pot.

if LAG started hand full 100bb, we do have implied odds to call if we are also 100 bb deep, we call 7bb into 90bb LAG ( stack left after 3bet) + 24,5bb pot + UTG stack, even if UTG folds postflop w/ adding money, we hve to call 7bb to win 114bb which gives us implied odds to set mine. we get 15:1

why are you set mining against a lag 3bing? this is a horrid idea

If the LAG 3 bets the shit out of UTG opens in FR like this then just lol and wait till you open UTG and have a strong range, then flat.

so you are folding 77-JJ vs this guys 3bet with 15:1 implied odds?

who said anything about folding i said set mining was a bad idea

ways to combat being OOP vs a habitual squeezer, when you are the one in the middle.

a) call less
b) 3b the open more, not in this situation though as the opener was UTG
c) flat the top end of your range more and either:
i) flat the squeeze
ii) backraise.