Top Set after PreFlop 3Bet - Slowplay?

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08-12-2011, 05:07 AM
DoubleJ

Top Set after PreFlop 3Bet - Slowplay?

What's are your views on slowplaying at uNL stakes?

Here's a hand from earlier where I just wasn't sure about what line to take postflop:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($5.07)
Button ($1.18)
Hero (SB) ($4.98)
BB ($1.76)
UTG ($2)
MP ($3.03)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif
1 fold, MP bets $0.06, CO calls $0.06, Button calls $0.06, Hero raises to $0.20, 1 fold, MP calls $0.14, CO calls $0.14, 1 fold

This was my second hand at this table, so I have nothing on MP or CO at all (and of course they have zero on me), so I'm thinking default ranges would be:

MP Range - JJ-22,AQs-A2s,KJs+,QJs,JTs,AQo-ATo,KJo+
CO Range - JJ-77,AQs-AJs,AQo

prior to my 3Bet

Flop: ($0.68) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero ???

...if they've stuck around with the majority of those ranges there's a good chance they've hit, and so I'm thinking Check/Raise

Pls. feel free to tell me i iz stoopid feesh
08-12-2011, 05:10 AM
eugmac

Bets 0.50
08-12-2011, 05:23 AM
Shotglass

Slowplays are fine on dry boards but with this one you're vulnerable so I'd play it fast. Go for three streets of value and and make your bet sizing to get stacks in by the river.
0.50
1.50ish
shove
08-12-2011, 05:39 AM
DoubleJ

Thanks!

so the risk of slowplaying this board is allowing one or both of them a free card to those draws?
08-12-2011, 05:42 AM
eugmac

ya and we get heaps of value from hands like TT that often check behind if we check.
08-12-2011, 05:48 AM
eugmac

Oh just noticed preflop bet sizing. Seeing that we're in the SB OOP vs a smallish open with two flat callers I'm 3betting bigger to 0.26 or 0.28.
08-12-2011, 06:06 AM
DoubleJ

Thanks!

Is that breakdownable?

My standard 3Bet is 3x or 3.5x the raise; you're recommending adding a bit on top of that for each caller and a bit more for being OOP?
08-12-2011, 06:11 AM
eugmac

ya i think 3x is cool if we're HU in position, bit more if there's a caller and esp if he's a whale and you think he'd come along for a huge 3bet, and i tend to go 4x or so minimum OOP to reduce our positional disadvantage.
08-12-2011, 06:17 AM
DoubleJ

thanks eugmac!
08-12-2011, 01:51 PM
Nekrogovner

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleJ

My standard 3Bet is 3x or 3.5x the raise; you're recommending adding a bit on top of that for each caller and a bit more for being OOP?

No standard at NL2. I usually raised 4x pot size at these stakes...so imagine, 3 limpers (0.06c), 1 raiser (0.08c), sb(0.01), and bb (0.02) x4 = 0.68c

And I got called or shoved over a ridiculous amount of time.

As for postflop, don't slowplay this flop ever, and don't slowplay these stakes ever. The only criteria for slowplay here imo is a villain with high fold to cbet and very high stab frequency when u miss cbet. But not on this flop. Ever.
08-12-2011, 02:00 PM
Shotglass

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleJ

so the risk of slowplaying this board is allowing one or both of them a free card to those draws?

That's only part of it, focus more on betting for value than on charging draws. If you slowplay this hand then you are missing a ton of value from hands like JJ, TT that'l peel one street or more. Protecting your hand and charging draws are side effects of betting for value.
08-12-2011, 02:23 PM
baudib

I think the range you put CO on is way too tight for a random unknown.

Given that you are OOP, fairly deep with MP2 and CO, and the fact that this is an obvious squeeze spot, I would 3-bet WAYYYY bigger, maybe 40 cents.
08-12-2011, 06:09 PM
DoubleJ

so, basically....completely wrong on all counts, then

[sigh] i'll keep a-tryin'...thanks all.

BTW - anyone fancy guessing the outcome of the hand? 'tis slightly amusing
08-12-2011, 06:48 PM
Nekrogovner

Villain had 8h7h but he didn't hit flush, he hit a runner-runner straight with 6s5s. That's amusing. And quite common.
08-12-2011, 06:59 PM
daven

preflop too small
flop is a stupid spot to do anything other than bet/raise

in general, i'm not convinced that playing 250bb deep at 2nl is better for you than playing 100bb deep at 5nl.
guess what happened: you got it in on the flop vs MP1's AA
08-12-2011, 10:07 PM
bikes

we're not slow playing here because we dont expect anyone to fold JJ TT, a 9 or any straight or flush draw to a bet.

check raising here is pretty dumb because giving a free card to a lot of hands is a poor choice if it checks through and a lot of the hands we get value from by betting may not bet themselves.
08-12-2011, 11:54 PM
d0zer

the OLD bikes woulda said "just f'n bet"
08-13-2011, 12:18 AM
Alexos

generally it's bad idea to slowplay, but it's even worse to slowplay on draw heavy boards and OOP.

So yeah just try to put a bunch of money in
08-13-2011, 03:44 AM
DoubleJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0zer

the OLD bikes woulda said "just f'n bet"

heh. kinda liking the new bikes, tho...
08-13-2011, 03:48 AM
DoubleJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

in general, i'm not convinced that playing 250bb deep at 2nl is better for you than playing 100bb deep at 5nl.

hi daven,

could you expand on that thought, please? me no honderstan' :confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

guess what happened: you got it in on the flop vs MP1's AA

close; no cigar
08-13-2011, 03:54 AM
Carroters

You obv got it in vs 99 and lost to the one outer.
08-13-2011, 04:04 AM
DoubleJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

You obv got it in vs 99 and lost to the one outer.

even closer.
08-13-2011, 05:00 AM
Shotglass

If Carroters was closer than daven then that leaves quad twos
08-13-2011, 05:22 AM
DoubleJ

clue: i think you're all assumin [understandably] that i lost the hand.
08-13-2011, 07:13 AM
Shotglass

Lemme guess, since this isn't a "fuck, my top set got sucked out on" then it's a thinly veiled brag about quad queens.

Or even better - set over set, villain pulls quads on the turn and you get quads on the river :puke:
08-13-2011, 07:25 AM
DoubleJ

o don't be like that! :(

i eez stoopid feesh. i don' get to brag.

it's not the result that was interesting, plus we've already confirmed that i played the hand totally wrongo.

we'd all flopped a set.
08-13-2011, 07:52 AM
Shotglass

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleJ

o don't be like that! :(

i eez stoopid feesh. i don' get to brag.

Sorry. That post was typed in before my first cup of coffee. http://icons.iconarchive.com/icons/m...offee-icon.png

I'd like to think that I'm not normally that much of a bitch.
08-13-2011, 01:36 PM
DoubleJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shotglass

Sorry. That post was typed in before my first cup of coffee.
I'd like to think that I'm not normally that much of a bitch.

c'est rien.

i appreciate your advices, whatever their form
08-13-2011, 11:29 PM
Alexos

And preflop sizing is bad, make it .30 at least