Hi,
I am new in this form and also poker world. Want to lean more from you all.
Thanks
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Hi,
I am new in this form and also poker world. Want to lean more from you all.
Thanks
Hey Mark & welcome. You can introduce yourself in the 'introduce yourself' section.
Also - best ever place to start is the strategy sections under 'training' tab and RPM did a really good post about where to read excellent posts on basic poker 'gold'.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ds-186705.html
The next step is read up on how to post a hand then do so (following the guides) and you'll get good discussion on how you played, how you could have played & what to think about. It's excellent for learning. It's not a bad beat post, you can do that in other sections.
Cheers & good luck
Edit: I can post links !
Nice work! Moradis for Mod!! :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moradis
You've come to right place.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark147
My $0.02 worth - there're some HeavyWeight Poker brains here. Pay attention, do your homework and you'll go far. But be aware that they won't pull any punches 'coz you're new.
It's a bit like Parris Island for Poker; the Gunnies kick the sh1t out of the FNGs, and those who make it through get to join The Corps.
But it's all good - you'll need a thick skin for this game, so park the ego, don't talk back, learn fast, and make $$$$! :D
DoubleJ has FTR in a nutshell. Some of the guys here have insane experience and knowledge. Ego will just be your enemy in learning the game.
Welcome dude.
If you're really here to learn, I'd suggest getting rid of the link in your sig at least until people know you better. Right now it just looks like you're wanting to spam advertise your site.
what kinda ftr are you guys talking about? is this how ftr seems to you?
+1. this was my first thoughtQuote:
Originally Posted by kiwiMark
changed.
doubt he comes back. Most first timers wwanting to learn overrun the forum with posts, they don't hit and run one OP
i still want an answer to my questions
kindaQuote:
Originally Posted by bikes
i ain't been here long, so maybe my perception is a bit skewed
and don't take the FMJ analogy too seriously; just seemed funny to me
didn't mean for anyone to get all bent out of shape :cool:
yesQuote:
what kinda ftr are you guys talking about? is this how ftr seems to you?
Thick skin is required. the top players here post with the same TAG style that they use at the tables. Though to be honest i think that this is necessary. The first time i ever gave someone poker advice I shot them to pieces and it was because they really need to be yelled at for playing 400nl with about as much skill as a 5nl fish.
the forums have changed since i first joined. I used to have a different account called BIGandRICH (i dont use it now because i don't know the password or the email address associated with it) that i used for a few years in 2005-6 when i was a noob, things were friendlier then and we didnt analyse in the same depth we do now. I guess partly because games were much softer and you didnt have to be anywhere near as calculated to show a winrate at micros.
I can assure you that no one here slammed me with "put your opponent on a god damn range (link)".. no one even talked about ranges.. and i was winning at 100NL.. The quality of the material here has improved dramatically, and at the same time we seem to have a much lower tolerance for anyone that hasnt read the that material and fully comprehended it all in there first week as a member. I remember the AOK 19 hand thread being golden, and opening your range beyond that was a big step. Now adhering strictly to that strategy would be considered fairly nit faced.
in fact, I had a friend (solid player at 1000NL) offer to stake me for 400nl if i could demonstrate an ability to exclusively set mine (i said no cos the numbers made me shit myself).. and since for some people, getting to that point, as in a sucessful set miner, is difficult and takes time, we are definately putting pressure on new members by making them feel like that have to master more difficult concepts to beat any level above 2NL.
I didn't even see the link - fat chance I'd be bother with adverts.
To answer bikes, I can give an opinion as a new member & a fish.
Q. Are the critiques direct?
yes - but the quality is awesome.
Q. Do I perceive the responses as rude?
No, I've never felt the commentary is saying, "your an idiot for doing xx".
The commentary usually starts off by saying something like, "I would have done XX for YY reason". There's also some good maths behind it but I don't usually go beyond outs :)
What doesn't help is when I see a post, "Just fold" or "Just shove" without any explanation. Sure, I can follow that but you might as well teach me to tick, A/B/C/D box when the exact same thing happens. It's more valuable for me to learn a method to analyse a similar situation & determine the most profitable play in the short/long run.
That's me however.
I have seen others get flamed for there response to a question but I've always taken the view that this is simply different playing styles. There are always personality/style clashes on an open forum. (see my KQs post for an example!)
Q. Has my game improved since I started reading FTR, posting etc.
Yes on the mind side, no on the profit side (in fact it's gone the other way). The point is however I understand a lot more about the mindset for me to use & others at the table (ranges, why they bet, why I bet). My poor form is spew & getting bored playing 'right' poker. I'm working on methods to reduce tabling and focus better. For now, I find the comments, personalities & support (with a stick or otherwise) as 100% useful.
(One caveat on profit - my online is worse, my live game is just gone nuts. Killing the guys live which is good as the money is bigger:))
Are you serious? Take a look at this thread. Someone introduces himself and a mod deletes his sig adding "doubt you'll be back". Probably he is a spammer, but as his only crime so far is to mention a site in his sig, why can't he be given the benefit of the doubt and be treated respectfully and welcomed by representatives of FTR? How do you think this plays with lurkers who are thinking of participating?Quote:
Originally Posted by bikes
This is mild compared with other "welcomes". A few females have introduced themselves and after the "pics of your tits or gtfo" posts, I have never seen any of them again. Anyone who does not show the appropriate humility or posts "bad questions" is mocked and if they complain, the resident 10NL experts of the BC tell them that they will never learn anything with that attitude. So everyone either leaves or shuts up so as not to rock the boat and the self perpetuating clique goes on and on.
If anyone is in any doubt that this is not a welcoming site primarily for politely discussing poker, look at reputations. Sauce123 has 1 green square and is on a distinguished road. Benny LaRue has 4 and is an interplanetary star or whatever. What more is there to say?
more answers plz. i genuinely want to hear everyone's thoughts in the bc about this.
1 - the sig is against terms and conditions of the siteQuote:
Originally Posted by linaker
2 - thus jyms is well within his rights to remove it
3 - read the first 4 posts in this thread. all welcoming and assuming the best (despite 99% of these posters just being spammers) of this person/trying to help
4 - we all know the rep game is largely bullshit and the most relevant forum for that seems to be the commune anyway - forum where poker strategy talk is forbidden
5 - there are VERY few posters that will criticise you in any way IF you are showing that you are actually striving to improve, open to others' ideas, and investing your own time in improving. i don't necessarily agree with some people whose approach is often to say "jam flop", "fold turn" without providing their reasoning - but that's just because i'm an analytical nutcase and i like to dig deeper into the the factors which lead to decisions etc.
6 - everyone sucked at one stage and asked stupid questions. if you think someone is treating you harshly, who gives a shit? you probably think they're a dickhead anyway (for treating you in a way you view as excessively harsh) and so shouldn't care about their personal opinions on you. however, the more harsh poster are almost invariably the better posters, and thus there is a shitload of knowledge/skill to be gained by taking their advice. which leads me to...
7 - at the end of the day, regardless of the tone of responses, every participating member on this forum posts their honest opinions and advice to other unknown poker players around the world, which some could even consider tapping the tank - making the games worse for themselves. (i'm thinking of guys like spoonitnow here who used to spend an absolute fuckload of time helping people become better at the game which they made a living from, for free, thus directly cutting into their own profits - just to help others (this obv applies to bikes/M2M/a whole host of other regular posters)
i could go on. but there's some of my thoughts.
as for the tits or GTFO shit, it's obviously a joke - however it's one i would personally prefer wasn't made. i agree with you on that point. i mean it's just a joke, but i would be pretty tilted if i was female looking to take up/learn some grossly gender-imbalanced game like poker (though that has improved in the last 50 years or whatever) and had to deal with some guys on the other side of the internet asking to see my body parts etc etc yadda yadda
Quote:
Originally Posted by linaker
Agreed - this isn't the place, nor the forum for stupid comments like that. (Personally I don't think there's any place but that's just me).Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm
Mark's orginal post has been well & truly hijaked but in a good cause.
Linaker has made some good points, RPM has weighed in. We need some other views from lurkers. Come out & be counted guys 'n gals. Tell the mods your good and bad experiences on the forum forever lurk.
I was once ridiculed for saying that 'turn-cbet stats would help' without explaining why. :)
I agree with everything that rpm said.
I think the bc was much more harsh when I joined but there were alot more posters and it seemed to me like a way of thinning the herd and keeping the people who were serious about learning around. This was also the first internet forum of anykind I had been on and I had a hard time understanding that the social morals and values we live by in the real world don't always apply here (Newfish?). I had pretty thin skin (still do) but knew that I could learn here if I stuck it out so I did.
There are signs from first time posters that can tell you how serious they are about learning. One of those signs (for me) is whether or not they can find the "introduce yourself here" thread. As a completely computarded donk I was able to find that thread as well as the FAQ read before posting thread and anybody that can't figure out how to find those is completely suspect as far as I'm concerned.
Blah, blah... working nightshift and really tired so sorry if that was all jibberish. Oh, and ffs even kiwis' posts have been of the non troll variety, including the one in this thread.
My 2 cents.
There's heaps of great info here and a small group of great posters who give some really good advice and help. Sometimes the explanations are lacking and that can be both good and bad. Good because it makes the person think about why their advice might be good and bad because if the person doesn't have the foundation needed to nut out why the advice is good it does them no good. Is that the advisers fault though? No, it simply is. However, if the person asks for some explanation it might be helpful to give a further nudge in the right direction as sometimes it is only that the advice is dealing with a concept the person hasn't come across yet.
As for the tone around here.......yes sometimes it can seem a little harsh for no apparent reason. I usually put that down to the people willing to respond to questions can get a little tired of hearing the same questions all the time. I'm sure the BC is full of the same type of questions over and over.
As for the reputation system......when you get negative rep points for posting a bad beat story in the bad beat forum it can be a bit annoying I must say! Isn't that the damn place for bad beat venting after all?? :) But frankly I couldn't care less how many green squares someone has as on most forums it rarely has to do with how good their advice is and a whole lot to do with how many witty/scathing/funny/whatever remarks they have made.
Overall though, I'm very glad I've gotten back into poker recently and very very glad FTR is still here as a great resource.
So are unhelpful, condescending remarks like "tits or gtfo", but the mods very rarely criticise or delete them. Some mods make such remarks. What is worse for the site? The mention of a poker site in a tiny font in someone's sig, which I did not notice. Or rude, mocking comments, which many people find offensive?Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm
The first post is welcoming and then they become progressively less so. If you really think that this is the way to welcome a first timer, then I hope you never have your own hotel.Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm
Making your first post on FTR is a minefield, isn't it? Post the wrong signature, post in the wrong place or post the wrong question and you will be instantly judged "not serious". I cannot understand why seemingly intelligent people cannot see how damaging this judgemental culture is to FTR.Quote:
Originally Posted by supahaole
Of course, complete idiots do occasionally join and irritate everyone. But even they deserve to be told they are complete idiots politely. How can anyone know that the noob, who just found FTR and impulsively posts without carefully looking round the whole site, is not the next Phil Ivey?
Anyone with an IQ in treble figures who wants poker advice is hardly going to bite the hand that feeds it. If I hadn't given up on this site long ago, I would not be posting in these terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moradis
There are great poker players on this site - some are world class. They are generally not the ones making fun of the noobs. No-one is objecting to constructive criticism - presumably that's what people want. The problem is the people who think they are "funny" or make instant judgements based on one post.
I only bothered posting because Bikes asked and FTR could be so much better. These issues have surfaced time and again, so it is entirely predictable that this thread will be full of posts saying count yourself lucky to be allowed onto this site to be ridiculed. The problem is that this is not the only poker forum on the internet. In the time since I joined, I think the number of active participants has declined. The reason is obvious.
Do you not think after modding for over 3 years I can tell the difference between a spammer and an actual noob? You need to give FTR some credit. Yes there have been many situations where people have been called out and maybe even treated a little harsh, but that's the real world, not mom's basement. We police FTR and also let people hash things out while they are still only disagreeing with each other. I don't think things are as bad as you seem to think on a free site with the amount of seriously good advice to help people not lose a BR.Quote:
Originally Posted by linaker
With all due respect jyms, I understand the need to delete the sig, but the 'doubt you'll come back' thing imo is unnecessary. if i may suggest, maybe a message like 'the link was deleted because this is considered spamming' is good enough perhaps, or something a little less harsh?
It just feels like it is sending the wrong message to lurkers (like me).
First 3 posts were "welcomes" from relatively new guys. The rest were posts telling OP that he was a spammer. He hasn't been back so...
I don't see that the forum has changed since I've been here and it should stay as it is. This forum has never had polite replies. It's always straight and to the point as it should be.
I was ranting and raving in one of my OPs a year or two ago about how much I was losing. Fnord posted a youtube vide of a guy ranting and raving while playing online. It really tilted me when I watched the video and I was about to tell Fnord to go fuck himself and then I realized he was right. Point taken.
Don't change nothin' except maybe the tits or gtfo posts.
Got mixed thoughts on this one. For those people doubting Jyms , having admin-ed another forum you soon instinctively know who's a spammer and who's a genuine poster. For this OP , everyone is so anxious for their feelings and that it may put them off , but theres only me ,angryafrican and jyms looked up his profile. Since he posted this message no other activity at all. Then consider all the other newish posters in this thread . how many of them have gone to the trouble of adding a sig (i haven't bothered after a couple of years) .
totally agree with linaker about the "tits out" type comments , no need to make them at all and just alienates potential posters.who knows , if you actually encourage women to come and stay around you may actually get to talk to some and get friendly with them.
As for being afraid of being criticised for making comments, some of the most informative posts for me were the ones that criticised what i said and explained the reasons why I was wrong. If you don't post your incorrect thinking , you just end up making the same mistakes time and again , usually bolstered by the positive feedback that getting lucky and sucking out gave.
take that one up with the DOJ!Quote:
Originally Posted by linaker
on a more serious note
I see your point. and i agree with your sentiment. i'm sure most people here would like to see the community we have come to know and love flourish in every positive way possible. i just don't think the level of animosity (undesirable as it is) here is remotely close to the level at which you seem to be perceiving it. and regardless, it's not like the so-called "outside world" is some utopian society where everybody manages to get along without a problem and never mistreats another being in any way (however that is obviously a far broader consideration than is probably worth delving into for the issue of the treatment of new posters on some internet strategy forum for some virtual card game).
i'm not looking to provoke an argument at all, and i hope my posts aren't read like that. i just personally think you are over-reacting. i for one try my best to give any advice i think i can offer a poster in the most clear and non-confrontational way i can (and i couldn't begin to count the amount of apologetic prefaces i've made in posts along the lines of "i'm not saying i necessarily believe that i am right here" or "my intention here is not to criticise you, and i hope this post isn't read that way"). i like to think of it as reciprocality. when i started, people who did not know me at all, and who stood to make a some non-zero amount less playing poker than they would if they decided not to help me, still decided to go ahead and give me their honest advice on how i could improve at poker. so for that reason, i enjoy trying to do the same for (the very few) people here who are of lesser poker knowledge/development than i am. least i could (try to) do, really.
the above was written while pretty damn sleep-deprived. i thus realise it may not make sense.
FTR rocks, seriously. Having first used FTR as a resource for poker knowledge, when I tried out 2+2 I noticed the massive drop in quality of content, I had to be suspect of many users who don't know what the fuck they talking about. The collective knowledge and articles collected by the players that teach and help everyone else here is amazing. I can trust the players here, if I post a thought thats stupid, I can be assured I'll be told why its stupid, and what concept I'm not understanding (mostly). This has the result of there being not much stupid shit on these boards, or you can see other new players thought processes corrected.
FTR is straight and to the point yes, and for that reason many people will be discouraged, have hurt egos and lurkers will be afraid to step forward. The quality of everything is much higher, and I really appreciate that over the many years I have lurked on FTR.
That being said, there is room for improvement. Lots of guys here have covered that already. Just don't give in to the populist crap, keep that quality high, but try doing that while nurturing new 'talent'. Help new posters by telling them *why* they wrong, why they stupid, and how they can fix it. The whys and hows are important, otherwise the person can be lost in a huge swamp of information.
FTR is fucking awesome.
edit: also, while I'm on it, how do newish accounts get permissions to post images so I can actually post pretty hand histories instead of walls of ugly text?
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angryafrican
You should be able to do that now. You get access at 10 posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angryafrican
says it all.Quote:
FTR is fucking awesome.
..
seriously, I said you need a thick skin but I don't feel that its because the people here are arseholes. If you feel like people are harsh and unfair to you and you don't like it thats probably a good time to find a different hobby.
plenty of people give/receive bad responses that arent that helpful, or are perhaps difficult to see why they are helpful. But the reality is... wait for it...
YOU'RE GETTING FREE ADVICE THAT WILL FACILITATE ACTUAL MONETARY GAIN AT THE EXPENSE OF THE ADVISING PARTY.
and 99 out of 100 times if your being spoken to by one of the top regs, it doesnt matter how rude or polite they are about it. They'll be correct, and there's a way to learn from their post. I acknowledge that this forum is at times harsh to new posters and may deter them. But i don't think its a bad thing. How many people that can't handle a brief bit of criticism from a stranger on the other side of the world will be able to handle their emotions at a poker table well enough to win long term? Those people are better off getting pushed out of the game before it costs them actual money. If a person has the required determination to suceed in poker they'll push through the minor bs that they run into in an online forum. Its certainly worth it for the value in the content here.
:clap: Absolutely agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by scott_owen
Every single person posting in this thread has said that sometimes people are treated harshly or unfairly. No-one has said the tone is always respectful or any malevolence is quickly stamped on. So I think Bikes has the answer to his question.
Various people have attempted to justify this with what appear to me to be very feeble arguments. Well they would, wouldn't they? These are the people who don't mind the harsh treatment, because they have stuck around and participate. Those who don't like it have long since moved on.
No Jyms, I don't need to give FTR more credit. I can read the good advice and use FTR to improve my game without ever contributing. And when I win the WSOP Main Event in November, I can credit 2p2 for my success. FTR is a business. It needs to make me (and others) feel that it is a forum that I want to be involved with and contribute to, otherwise it dies.
Someone once bothered to write and post a set of forum rules. I have always wondered why these are so selectively enforced. Spammers are cut off before they can spam, but you can mock, ridicule and jeer with impunity. I am not talking about direct or straightforward constructive criticism. In fact, when someone suggests calling with AA on the button after 5 limpers because they never win with aces, failure to criticise and posting that this is good play is the kind of thing I am talking about.
Would it really kill a mod to post after a mocking comment: "Please keep your replies respectful"? Would any of the people, who think that you should not be playing poker if you can't handle a bit of criticism, be so offended by such a comment that they would leave the site for good? It is a harsh world, but why is it in FTR's interests to toughen up its contributors so that they are able to face the trauma of the online poker sites? If FTR was perceived as a friendly, welcoming site where players of any standard are always treated with respect, why would that be such a bad thing?
Some thoughts from a female perspective.
The whole 'get your tits out or gtfo' is obv a joke. Girls who take it as a serious offense need to chill the fuck out. I'd maybe hold off until they get a bit more comfortable in the forum as girls tend to be a bit more timid, but hey ho, boys will be boys and who knows, maybe you lot will strike lucky sometime!
Sure, it can be intimidating for girls to enter such a male-dominated community, but as a girl joining ftr, I found you all to be very welcoming, and I also felt like you cut me a little more slack. I didn't receive half as harsh the responses as some of the other noobs, which I was really grateful for. I'm a tough cookie, but I must admit, I do shy a little away from posting and will mull stuff over for ages before submitting. That's more to do with pride and not liking being told I'm wrong rather than fearing abuse, and that's an issue I've got to overcome personally.
The advice here is sound. Sure it can be harsh at times, but beginners need to be set in their place and their attitudes corrected. I've noticed a lot of folk coming in with loads of ego who disregard advice dispensed by well respected folk and continue in their misguided ways. I don't think there's place for folk like that in communities genuinely willing to help you improve. Waste of space imo.
Regarding any hostility, I was a little surprised by it at first, but mods etc do have a good feel for who are spammers/trolls/dumbasses, and time and time again they're totally spot on about who won't be back. Good riddance.
If you approach this with a good attitude and put plenty of effort in and take things on board, ftr offers plenty of support, and I don't think you guys should worry too much about changing your approach.
Finally, working on recruiting more girls to the forum, you all better be on best behaviour!
will they show tits?
only if asked REEEEEEAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLL nicely.
(*)(*)
perky!Quote:
Originally Posted by Petulie
Hey - he did post another comment...
Gratz on the mod picking the guy who wants to infect my computer. :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by mark147
"I'm new to poker, but created some really cool accessories in my spare time". Jeez, and to think I was nice. Perhaps I will not say hi so soon...
Oh & thanks for the titties. sweet as
so....do you have your answers?Quote:
Originally Posted by bikes
i'm not sure where you're going with thisQuote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ
suspicious much?Quote:
Originally Posted by bikes
:)
You asked for feedback earlier in the thread; i'm asking whether you have recieved enough, or if you want more.
s'all