Straight draw vs multiway pot

NL10 RUSH. MP3 is unknown, 21/21 over 14 hands. CO is 6/3 nit/rock over 31 hand sample.
On flop I put both of their ranges on any pocket pair, set or a solid flush draw. Since I have somewhat solid odds to call I decide to tag along.
Turn card busts me pretty much, blockings 2 of my eight outs, assuming noone hit the flush draw yet.
MP3's shove looks sort of weak, like he is scared of another flush card (maybe defending a set). On the other hand, CO's call looks quite strong to me (flush, nut flush draw, set, QQ-AA).

Should I call the shove here, since I have really nice implied odds if I hit my straight?


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($8.27)
Hero (BB) ($12.23)
UTG ($4.20)
UTG+1 ($11.48)
MP1 ($18.74)
MP2 ($10.60)
MP3 ($4.24)
CO ($4)
Button ($19.81)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif
4 folds, MP3 bets $0.25, CO calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.80) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $0.40, CO calls $0.40, Hero calls $0.40

Turn: ($2) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $3.59 (All-In), CO calls $3.35 (All-In), Hero folds

River: ($8.70) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $8.70 | Rake: $0.58

once you or your opponent is all in then you have no implied odds. With those stack sizes I'm not sure I would have tagged along, especially oop.

Read this:http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ll-173396.html
To figure out if you should call.

this hand is fine.

I wasn't saying that he played it badly, just that I'm not sure that I would have tagged along. Maybe I shoulda put that in there as well.

@op, sorry if there was some confusion.

Well having been taken to task recently for what I am told would be a big leak in my game by calling a raise and call from the BB with 67s, I'm not sure one is supposed to call with 78s either.

Having said that, I think folding the turn is fine. At this level I'd be surprised if one or the other doesn't have the flush.

first of all i believe that you defo have to fold preflop that kind of hand in BB, specially against two other players. that's a total weak hand and playing draws out of position totally sucks, cuz in the long run you'll gonna get -ev. even that hand has poor equity. how often do you think you'll hit a straight or a flush on the flop? try and play small suited connectors from CO or BU (CO if there's a tight table and BU if there are maniacs) when the pot isn't raised preflop until your turn.

that's with preflop. on flop, check-fold is great. if they check behind, good news - but if they bet, you'd better fold since your odds to improve are slim compared to your hand odds and your pot odds although being in multipot and since the bettor has bet only half pot you have SOME equity. but my opinion, still not enough.

turn fold is perfect, although you should have mucked the hand long ago. don't worry a lot about missing value there, because you have to get used to the ideea that you're playing poker NOT lottery. if you wanna try your luck, you can buy some numbers and try out. but since you play poker, you have to think in terms of profit/expected vlue and take RATIONAL decisions. nobody says there's no luck implied in poker, but if you chase every hand hoping for luck, you're gonna get busto. trust me on my word.

hope this helps you with your hand. :) best of luck at the tables.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PKKFW

Well having been taken to task recently for what I am told would be a big leak in my game by calling a raise and call from the BB with 67s, I'm not sure one is supposed to call with 78s either.

Having said that, I think folding the turn is fine. At this level I'd be surprised if one or the other doesn't have the flush.

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It would be clearly insane to call with 87s OOP every time I get it, this was one of those rare times I do it for a bit of deception (though I must say, my choice of villains to play this hand against was pretty atrocious, since both of them are unknowns).

And you would be surprised, regardless of this hand, how often in these situations villains actually hold a strong pocket pair (or AKo-AJo) that draws for a flush.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nekrogovner

It would be clearly insane to call with 87s OOP every time I get it, this was one of those rare times I do it for a bit of deception (though I must say, my choice of villains to play this hand against was pretty atrocious, since both of them are unknowns).

And you would be surprised, regardless of this hand, how often in these situations villains actually hold a strong pocket pair (or AKo-AJo) that draws for a flush.

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Yes I wouldn't be doing it often either and it would be entirely villain dependent if I did. Just thought I'd mention it.

wtf dont fold pre

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bikes

wtf dont fold pre

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I love how you elaborate your thoughts. :-D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nekrogovner

It would be clearly insane to call with 87s OOP every time I get it, this was one of those rare times I do it for a bit of deception (though I must say, my choice of villains to play this hand against was pretty atrocious, since both of them are unknowns).

And you would be surprised, regardless of this hand, how often in these situations villains actually hold a strong pocket pair (or AKo-AJo) that draws for a flush.

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if you want to add up deception in these kind of hands, just pfr in UTG bc is more likely that beginners call with suited connectors from the blinds ("since i already have one blind invested" - this is a very bad conception), or at least 3bet from the blinds with these kind of hands, if you feel weakness (since AQ-AT or Ax would fold 80% against very well timed 3bets).

about the villains' play, the pfr is newbish, but CO played it fair. had position and exploited you both with a decent hand that was made even better - i don't find it hard to believe he had Axs and drawn to nut-flush or maybe even a set and he just pulled out some profit from the noob in MP who tried to "protect" his hand (overpair or A9 if he is bad enough) with an invaluable bet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nekrogovner

I love how you elaborate your thoughts. :-D

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What bikes is talking about, and bikes correct me if I'm wrong, is that 87:s: is a hand that can win a huge pot, similar to small pp. The ONLY reason I wouldn't play it is because it's against the two short stacks.

Rat holers have special place in hell.

Pre you are investing 0.15 to win potentially at least $4, so their stack sizes are big enough. You are closing the action and have relative position on the raiser, which somewhat compensates for being OOP as the turn shows. With 87s, you are going to flop a hand or a good draw a high proportion of the time, so as long as you can play a bit post flop and are not going to stack off on a A84r flop, it seems like a good call to me.

On the flop, you definitely have 6 clean outs, so you have a 6 - 1 chance of hitting one of them on the turn and are getting 4 - 1 to call. You may have more than 6 outs and with 2 others in the pot you have implied odds, so a call is clearly correct.

The turn is just about the worst card for you. Now, you could be drawing dead to a flush. If not, you very probably have just 6 outs and maybe none, as now you could hit your straight and lose to KdQx, KxQd. You are getting just 2.5 - 1 with no implied odds. Its a clear fold.

Well played hand IMO.