Two pair against 3-bet: Straight/Set kills me often.

When will I learn that my top two pair isn't good?
I ask mostly because I have a habit of getting into bad spots - Most times I'm either up against a strong draw (or a draw that made it) or a set. This seems to happen way too much for my liking....

If I spike 2 pair on the flop after limping with JQ or TQ or something similar, I'll usually try to check-raise, only to get re-raised by my opponent.
At this point I'll either be forced to call (or shove depending on my stack), otherwise fold and be left wondering why I bothered check-raising to begin with if I wasn't prepared to call the whole way.

On most occasions when I call, my opponent rolls over a set or some odd straight draw that's somehow managed to hit (those 4outer gut-shots kill me).

Sometimes it's not with very good holdings that they made their straight or flush, but then I wonder if I'm playing my two pair correctly (If not, I probably deserve to lose, lol)

I think I've got a lot to learn about playing a hand in poker - This place is definitely giving me access to a world of information; I can only hope that one day if I improve enough at poker, I can come back here and offer my advice to others who were once like me.
What say you people?

Don't try and make generalities like this. Post specific hands, with reads and ranges.

I say two things:
that this thread is really close to a bad beat bitch session that should be in the tilting forum
that you should post hands that you're unsure of how to play to get more relevant discussion

OP needs to start saving hand histories

Better playersthan me have replied.

I'll add my opinion.

Fold QT QJ until you know howto play them. Better players than me havetrouble showing a profit with these hands.

Points taken - I'll post specific hands from now on and try not to generalize.
Also re-reading this post, it really does sound like I'm bitching, sorry, not my intention (Just frustrated at getting myself into bad spots often).

I can see though that it's almost impossible to discuss from my ranting style of post, as you guys can't really tell too much without me giving specific examples.

Feel free to move this anyone if it's in the wrong place :-)

Example/s of hands will be sure to follow tomorrow - Right now I'm going to go get involved in some, hopefully a few will be worth mentioning next time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by poker_profiteer

When will I learn that my top two pair isn't good?

If I spike 2 pair on the flop after limping with JQ or TQ or something similar, I'll usually try to check-raise, only to get re-raised by my opponent.

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All your mistakes are in this one sentence. For starters, stop limping. If you want to play something dumb like QJ or QT raise, otherwise some psycho will limp in with 27, and you will get stacked on 27Q flop.

But since you might decide to limp, don't BLOAT the pot, win a few tiny big blinds with it and be happy with it. Once someone shows extreme aggresion in limped pot, evaluate the situation and decide wether to stay or fold. But mostly you will be up against draws, sets, and maybe some overplayed top pair.

And don't generalize, like I did here. :D

^^ It's not necessarily a mistake to limp behind in position in multi-way pots with medium/high suited connectors or gappers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nekrogovner

If you want to play something dumb like QJ or QT raise, otherwise some psycho will limp in with 27, and you will get stacked on 27Q flop.

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If the OP is spiking 2pr otf after limping QT or QJ then he's not looking at a flop of 27Q.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JR9477

OP needs to start saving hand histories

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Agreed.

Judging from the great range of advice/discussion here, I'm going to try keeping the pot small with hands like this and be happy winning at least a little.

As was pointed out, win a little or lose a lot - I know which I'd rather do....

Also even if not on the flop, chances are at the low levels I'm playing at if somebody has middle or bottom pair (with 72 etc.) than I'm getting called and calling/losing anyway, which is another reason why I like the idea of keeping the pot small.

Thank-you everyone for the help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by poker_profiteer

As was pointed out, win a little or lose a lot - I know which I'd rather do.....

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I'd rather lose little and win a lot.

Gotta be honest your profile looks questionable.

Anyways, yeah overall it's not good to generalize nor try to have a lose a lot/win a little approach. Your goal should be to win the most amount of money possible. Obviously try to win a little instead of lose a lot if you are having trouble winning often. But eventually you'll want/need to start figuring out where your mindset is flawed. Best way IMO is to post hands/stats.

general rule: don't c/r in limped pots in the micros?? seems just as weird as open limping to me lolloololoo

@OP, your signature line is going to get you in trouble. FYI, FTR is also an affiliate and you are advertising the competition on their board.

... not that I have any sympathy for that filthy affiliate business...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by poker_profiteer

When will I learn that my top two pair isn't good?

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It's not important. Top two pair wins more often than it loses, you're picking off worse 2pairs, overpairs and sometimes tptk. Obviously don't just blindly stack off with top two, but don't be afraid to either. Take it on the chin when it loses.

You have to put people on a range. Very occasionally, that range will be sets and sets only. That's when you fold top two. I can only think of one hand where I have successfully nailed villain's hand as a set and folded top two on the flop (and he showed his set mwahaha). I'd rather pay off a set than be pushed off what is nearly always the best hand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Imthenewfish

general rule: don't c/r in limped pots in the micros??

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I think that generalities like this are fine to get someone to start plugging a few leaks in their game but it needs to be clarified that there are definately times and some situations that a c/r in a limped pot is going to be the best play to get more $$$ in the pot.