How To Deal With A Calling Station In Big Blind?

I don't mean to be mis-leading in my thread title. I don't think the villain here is a calling station normally. In fact, I've found him to be quite tight. I had 266 hands on him and he was 9/7 with a CB/FCB of 50/50.

However I got the feeling in this hand that he took a dis-like to my steal here and was going to call me down with anything. He made no attempt to raise my bets through the streets and I just didn't put him on Aces or a set.. but this river card made my decision difficult.. or not..

How should one deal with this type of situation? Is it worth calling the river bet just for the information? Was checking the river a mistake?

$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem
FullTiltPoker
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($10)
UTG+1 ($11.34)
MP1 ($2.05)
MP2 ($10)
MP3 ($9.40)
CO ($11.05)
BTN ($11.66)
hero (SB) ($10)
BB ($11.44)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15, 9 players) hero is SB :kh: :kd:
7 folds, hero raises to $0.40, BB calls $0.30

Flop: :7h: :9s: :5h: ($0.80, 2 players)
hero bets $0.56, BB calls $0.56

Turn: :td: ($1.92, 2 players)
hero bets $1.34, BB calls $1.34

River: :8d: ($4.60, 2 players)
hero checks, BB bets $4.60, hero ?????

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Originally Posted by derekeverett

I had 266 hands on him and he was 9/7 with a CB/FCB of 50/50.

However I got the feeling in this hand that he took a dis-like to my steal here and was going to call me down with anything.

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Can you elaborate a bit on this "feeling" of yours? Is this the kind of feeling you get when someone is looking at you from across the room? The kind of feeling you get when there's paranormal spirits nearby? The kind of feeling you get in your pants when a girl touches your nono zone?

He's a supernit dude, he's not playing into BvB dynamics, he's not getting sick of you raising, he's not randomly spazzing out, he's playing an absurdly tight, robotic game.

That being said, it's tough to put him on much of anything that would do this on the river for value except JThh, AJhh, QJhh. But he's a supernit so he probably doesn't have many missed hearts without a jack (especially with our Kh), and it's not like he's gunna pot bluff those 100% of the time so I don't see a problem with c/f'ing river to a bet of this size. It's not like you're really getting exploited by this guy massively even if he does happen to be bluffing here with AQhh.

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Originally Posted by d0zer

Can you elaborate a bit on this "feeling" of yours? Is this the kind of feeling you get when someone is looking at you from across the room? The kind of feeling you get when there's paranormal spirits nearby? The kind of feeling you get in your pants when a girl touches your nono zone?

He's a supernit dude, he's not playing into BvB dynamics, he's not getting sick of you raising, he's not randomly spazzing out, he's playing an absurdly tight, robotic game.

That being said, it's tough to put him on much of anything that would do this on the river for value except JThh, AJhh, QJhh. But he's a supernit so he probably doesn't have many missed hearts without a jack (especially with our Kh), and it's not like he's gunna pot bluff those 100% of the time so I don't see a problem with c/f'ing river to a bet of this size. It's not like you're really getting exploited by this guy massively even if he does happen to be bluffing here with AQhh.

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I had been at this table with him for some time. I had raised from the SB a few times and on every single occasion he took his time folding.. and he definitely had no hesitation in folding when the raise came from the button or the CO. So I was expecting a re-raise from him soon. In fact, that's what I was hoping he was going to do here.. the flat call surprised me some.

The fact that he was a super-nit is exactly the thing... am I supposed to believe that a player this tight would be calling down a hearts draw or a straight draw? The hearts draw made the most sense but if that was the case.. he didn't get there.

So given the size of the river bet I'm left to believe one of 3 things.. that this super-nit called down to the river on a backdoor straight draw with his Jack.. or he hit a set on the flop and chose not to re-raise the flop or turn.. or he's bluffing a missed flush draw.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by derekeverett

So given the size of the river bet I'm left to believe one of 3 things.. that this super-nit called down to the river on a backdoor straight draw with his Jack.. or he hit a set on the flop and chose not to re-raise the flop or turn.. or he's bluffing a missed flush draw.

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He's not value-betting worse than a jack with this size, and sets almost always raise before the river. Like I said, there's not many FDs in his range that don't have a jack in them so just fold and move on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by d0zer

He's not value-betting worse than a jack with this size, and sets almost always raise before the river. Like I said, there's not many FDs in his range that don't have a jack in them so just fold and move on.

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Your absolutely right. I was just surprised to see him be so aggressive on a draw, given his stats.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by derekeverett

Your absolutely right. I was just surprised to see him be so aggressive on a draw, given his stats.

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He wasn't really aggressive.

Also he could have JJ here.

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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Also he could have JJ here.

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You know I didn't even think about that.. good thing I have a day job .;)

river bet-fold small or check-fold as played both fine.

i wouldn't bother playing the adjustments game much here - you're basically building "reads" on very shaky ground in my opinion, ie "you had a feeling he was going to start playing back". this may or may not be true. in all likelihood it's not. experience shows these really really tight 9/7 guys have a very tight, rigid, and robotic style of poker. and don't often get out of line or "start playing back", because that's not within their programming. they have their (small) list of hands they play, and the y play them. granted, there is some non-zero % chance he is adjusting to your play, but it's negligible.

i've lost far too much money to these guys (who are mostly terrible at poker, they just rote-learn a tight style that works against a loose/passive player field) thinking that they are "playing back" at me and talking myself into calling their bets/re-raising them or whatever. at the end of the day - they are incredibly tight players and you'll make money off them because

- they fold a shitload
- they almost always have it when they are playing aggressively. so you know to fold and not pay them off

moved to the BC

also c/f this river literally everything has 2pair+ now except like Q9+

Also bet more on flop and turn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bikes

moved to the BC

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Thanks.. I did notice shortly after posing that I put it in the wrong place.

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Originally Posted by !Luck

Also bet more on flop and turn

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I was wondering about that too. My gut tells me he was gonna call anyway... but I still think your right about this.

:facepalm: soulreads

Oh and doesn't he have JJ ever time here?

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Originally Posted by Shotglass

:facepalm: soulreads

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lol +1 to this.

His range at river for me is...

TJ / JJ / AhTh / AhJh / AhQh >99% of the time,
and some non-zero % of the time he has junk.

When playing super-nits like this, take a look at how many tables he's playing. Usually these kind of people are playing tons of tables, and if that's the case, I doubt he's noticing you're raising his blind often. I think he will look at your stats as a guide for his action, so if you've been playing wild at this table, then he might be playing back at you, but if you're playing solid, then his range is solid too.

c/f river.

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

When playing super-nits like this, take a look at how many tables he's playing. Usually these kind of people are playing tons of tables, and if that's the case, I doubt he's noticing you're raising his blind often. I think he will look at your stats as a guide for his action, so if you've been playing wild at this table, then he might be playing back at you, but if you're playing solid, then his range is solid too.

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This is interesting to me and I will start doing this... so thank you.

I had been playing fairly tight if I remember correctly.. so given this, had I have checked and saw that he was only playing a couple of tables, would I have more license to believe that he was trying to bluff me out of the pot on account of the obvious straight draw on the board?

Assuming of course that if he's playing multiple tables he's less likely to try such a move?

Looking at how many tables he's playing shouldn't be the deciding factor, but you should consider it a read. It makes certain actions a little more or less likely, it doesn't eliminate the chances altogether. He might be playing 12 tables, but still be noticing your raises, so there is always the chance he is adjusting, I'd just say it's less likely than if he's playing 1 or 2 tables.

I'd fold this even if he's only playing 1 table though, that river is just too bad. It's much more likely he has a hand than nothing at all, and we are only beating a bluff.

Many times I've leveled myself into thinking a nit is "getting sick of me", or "exploiting their image" or whatever other justification you want to use for a nit not playing an absurdly strong range.

The only thing that convinces me anymore is actually seeing them get out of line somehow.

if i thought the villian was just absolutely horrible b/f $.60c

Really easy c/f on the river. He actually has a J almost all the time here. I think you need to think more about a guys range and what a 9/7 can possibly have here in his range that A: Is worse than your hand, or B: Has no SD value and needs to bluff the river. Don't rely on dubious gut feelings to call before considering your opponent's range.