OOP TPTK vs EP nit

villain is 7/7 AFq 55 , 100% flop cbet ,33% turn cbet over 103

hi pfr range is AQ+,88+

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

Hero (SB) ($10.05)
BB ($9.02)
UTG ($9.35)
UTG+1 ($3.87)
MP1 ($9.95)
MP2 ($3.70)
MP3 ($21.04)
CO ($10.15)
Button ($10.55)

Preflop: Hero is SB with http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...smilies/ks.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...smilies/ah.gif
1 fold, UTG+1 bets $0.30, 5 folds, Hero calls $0.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.70) http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...smilies/kd.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...smilies/js.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...smilies/6d.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50

i c/c flop cause he's cbetting all of his range and so i get value from all of his hands. ok to c/c?

Turn: ($1.70) http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...smilies/8h.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $1.40, Hero?!

i checked again cause the 8 as i see it gives him another set and i would like a cheap showdown vs him.

his betting range would be now AK( 6 combos),KK ( 1 combo),JJ ( 3 combos),88 (3combos) and sometimes AQdd. after a quick math i only beat one combo, tie with 6 and get beat by 7.

would be stupid in my part to fold here vs this type of player?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razvan729

his betting range would be now AK( 6 combos),KK ( 1 combo),JJ ( 3 combos),88 (3combos) and sometimes AQdd. after a quick math i only beat one combo, tie with 6 and get beat by 7.

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Doesn't this answer your question?

What is your equity against his range? Answer this question and you have your answer...

@david:

that i can easily do after the hand... and i did.... my questions are about in game decisions and i would like you to tell me what you do on turn in this hand w/o stoving it. cause you dont stove every hand while you play. and if you can, how do you play this hand vs this type of player from preflop to turn.

@easypoker

since i posted the hand, means i really do consider folding here, but i am not sure that c/c flop and c/f turn may be the best play vs type of player. if i knew the best answers of all my questions i prob be playing 100nl and fcking winning.

but in some cases, even "easy" as this as you seem to see it, i sometimes am unsure and i like to get opinions from better players then me. i rather have you thinking that i am stupid when i ask these and get good answers and develop my game into a better one, then dont ask them,decide on myself what to do and get fucking busto cause i am shamed to asked "silly" questions. i just wanna learn things i dont know and get asured once again on some things that i am not sure and i am always gonna ask any dumb question if i am not 100% sure i am right about it.

so i am asking again, may be stupid questions and i may be a fcking stupid jackass, but... c/c flop and c/f turn is ok on this board vs this type of player? if yes why, if now why , if you play diff this hand, then why?

As Easypoker said above, no need to stove it, you can see by just having a look at the combos in his range and your pot odds that you are not going to get enough equity to call. The one combo you beat is still beating you 25% of the time on the river, whereas all the combos that beat you do so 100% of the time. Besides, you don't have AA in his range and I don't see why it shouldn't be there (three more combos that beat you). Now even if you add 2 combos of KQs, that's still not going to do it equity-wise.

Besides if you call, you are committed because he is short stacked, so you might as well consider that he is shoving.

Pretty weird that a 7/7 nit plays around with a short stack like that though...

check/calling the flop is fine because he probably cbets it with worse hands. C/F'ing the turn, especially against this sizing is the best play imo. you chop with the very worst hand i can see him doing it with. and the rest of the hands in his range have 100% equity.

How (if at all) would you guys play this hand differently if we had 33 instead of AK?

I would 3bet/ get it in 100% preflop vs this SS. That said, if you are going with exactly the range that you gave him I can't see any other option than folding. The player you describe is definitely never barreling with worse than AQ here (I also think he has AJ in his range but that still beats us).

SSers are generally going to be stacking off preflop with like AQs TT+ and 3betting/getting it in simplifies things. Additionally, if you have such a defined range as the one given AK is going to play absolutely terrible post flop. This type of player is going to be folding all under pairs on Axx flops and the only flops he stacks off with under pairs on are the ones that miss you. By 3betting/stacking off you at least get to see all 5 cards instead of c/f probably around 80% of the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grnydrowave2

How (if at all) would you guys play this hand differently if we had 33 instead of AK?

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Blah, I didn't notice this guy was so short. Disregard.

The point I wanted to get to was that there might be merit in check/floating villains like this, even if their range is super narrow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grnydrowave2

Blah, I didn't notice this guy was so short. Disregard.

The point I wanted to get to was that there might be merit in check/floating villains like this, even if their range is super narrow.

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I agree with this vs full stacked players on certain boards. However, I don't think this particular board texture is any good for that play. It's simply too wet for us to c/c and then expect to elicit any sort of reasonably high fold % on the turn. It's possible that we could c/c and then bet twice or simply c/r and triple barrel with air but all in all this is just a terrible board to bluff at.

^^Yes, ideal with a 100% flop cbet and only 33% follow up on turn cbet, I guess...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grnydrowave2

Blah, I didn't notice this guy was so short. Disregard.

The point I wanted to get to was that there might be merit in check/floating villains like this, even if their range is super narrow.

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generally floating strong ranges OOP with like no chance to improve and where even all of villains air has a ton of equity against u is a bad idea

Incidentally, I think Razvan does tend to assign ranges that are too tight...I've seen a lot of his hands and many of them seem to be like:
"Look, I was right here when I made this fold wasn't I, because his range is XYZ"
See the one where he had the nut straight draw and was afraid of a full house for further reference.

SPR. You hand sample isn't that great. For all you know he may have QQ. Also, you should m ake a commitment decision vs such a short stack on the flop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EasyPoker

Incidentally, I think Razvan does tend to assign ranges that are too tight...I've seen a lot of his hands and many of them seem to be like:
"Look, I was right here when I made this fold wasn't I, because his range is XYZ"
See the one where he had the nut straight draw and was afraid of a full house for further reference.

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I can see how this can be true. Razvan is a tightish player, so he may be assigning ranges that are far too tight.
I think this is a common mistake among new players still learning ranges. They assign ranges based more on how they would play and what makes sense to them, and not enough on how their opponent's actually thinks and plays. At times, it's hard to understand why and how someone play in a different way, especially their mindset is further from our own.

3bet and get it in pre.

As played get it in on flop.

i do agree with 3bet pre and get AI pfr against a short stack. and this may be a leak that i am afraid to do it AKo, but i do it AKs often vs shortstacks.

but i dont really understand why get AI on flop. for me to make a good play by shoving means he should be calling my shove with QQ, AQdd and AJdd beside AK,JJ.

also EasyPoker and JR are right, i am a tigh player and i ussually tend to assign ranges based on what would make sense to bet depdending on board texture and HUD stats, sometimes my ranges may be very tight.
so what range would you assign him preflop and flop/turn for the line he takes?

mmm.. short stackk... bet more.

reraise pre, shove flop.

as played, AA is def. in his range...

it is, i just forgot to mention it.

3bet pre (with the intention of getting it in if 4bet), get it in flop, especially against a shorty. I always assume villains with such stats as incompetent shortstackers until proven otherwise. His flop calling range is probably AJ+, 77+ which you have crushed.

Another thing, 3betting pre defines villain's range even more, which makes this hand easier to play. Not saying that you should find a fold, just that you get an idea of his calling range if he does call, and his 4bet-shoving range if he shoves.

3b pre get it in