25nl: QQ so erm yeah?

Initial opener is a winning player at these stakes - about 23/20
3 bettor is an unknown
Button is a loose/passive whale - 35/3

This is my 2nd hand at the table, original raiser will know me and have some stats, no idea on the other two.

2 Decision spots
*Preflop
*Flop

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($9)
CO ($43.65)
Hero (SB) ($25)
MP ($35.26)
BB ($37.76)
Button ($26.74)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q:heart:, Q:diamond:
1 fold, MP bets $1, CO raises $3, Button calls $3, Hero calls $2.90, 1 fold, MP calls $2

Flop: ($12.25) 9:diamond:, 4:diamond:, J:club: (4 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, CO bets $7.50, Button calls $7.50, Hero ???

probably stick it in with Kings and fold Queens

When CO 3-bets MP, I'd put him on a value range. So I like calling preflop because you're probably near the bottom of his range.

If you raise the flop and get called or re-raised by MP or CO, you're probably way behind, sometimes flipping. So I like calling on the flop, even though it would be nice to get ai with the BTN. I'm not too scared of diamond turns, but if a K or A comes, and CO shows interest or MP is still around and shows interest, that would be bad. Ideally, you call the flop, MP folds, CO checks or bets small ott, you put in a big bet, committed now, CO folds and BTN comes along with his KJ or w/e. If you call the flop and the turn is fairly safe and CO puts in another big bet, you have a decision to make, probably just fold.

You are getting 3.6:1 to call here. your pot equity is like 22% but your equity vs there range is at best 11-12%. I dare you to construct a range where you have 22% equity.

It's not just a question of our absolute equity right now, but also how CO plays the different parts of his range. Almost half the time CO has AK, no flush draw, and gives up unimproved on the turn. So calling here is like paying $7.50 for a 50/50 chance of having the fish to ourselves in a huge pot where we have an overpair. Of course if the unknown CO doesn't c-bet AK no draw, then we should definitely fold now, but we don't know, and I think alot of people would.

considering the BTN is a big whale - and at least 2 of the 3 in the pot know this, id say AK wont bet this flop - AK diamonds+ will - im dead against that range

I think in game, without thinking I prob call. But this is a clear fold.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

probably stick it in with Kings and fold Queens

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pre or flop

im assuming flop - but i dont like taking KK to anything but a HU flop if i can help it...

no one likes raising this PF? I mean, theres a ton of dead money out there and even if we end up getting it in vs a range of QQ+ AK we still have 40% equity.

Yeah, I agree with Kfes, not that I play much 6m, but I figured at 6m you are glad to stack off pre with QQ anyway.

i think a raise pre too.

calling is just asking to be put in this spot on the flop

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DanAronG

Yeah, I agree with Kfes, not that I play much 6m, but I figured at 6m you are glad to stack off pre with QQ anyway.

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This kind of general blanket reasoning is bad for your growth as a player. Whether or not you can get it in comfortably with QQ completely depends on your opponents, not the limit you play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by caddie444

This kind of general blanket reasoning is bad for your growth as a player. Whether or not you can get it in comfortably with QQ completely depends on your opponents, not the limit you play.

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Your right of course, but from my experience people play AK like its the nuts and if you aren't happy to stack off with QQ pre people will exploit the shit out of you. And I would expect a winning 23/20 player to play that way. But you're completely right, its a generalization, I don't know the player and its perhaps not that helpful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DanAronG

Your right of course, but from my experience people play AK like its the nuts and if you aren't happy to stack off with QQ pre people will exploit the shit out of you. And I would expect a winning 23/20 player to play that way. But you're completely right, its a generalization, I don't know the player and its perhaps not that helpful.

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rofl and just how are they going to "exploit the shit out of you"