25NL: 2pr on turn

villain is complete unknown.


$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem

Stacks:
UTG iamhemza ($7.54)
UTG+1 2043664 ($29.01)
CO Hero ($25)
BTN malsuerte ($51.07)
SB mp5n ($25)
BB papyto26 ($43.22)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 6 players) Hero is CO :qc: :9d:
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, papyto26 calls $0.50

Flop: :9c: :6d: :2c: ($1.60, 2 players)
papyto26 checks, Hero bets $1, papyto26 raises to $2, Hero calls $1

Turn: :qd: ($5.60, 2 players)
papyto26 checks, Hero bets $4.25, papyto26 raises to $8.50, $4.25 to Hero ($18)?


BU is a 23/20/2.3 3bet over 100 hands, sb is a nit that doesn't 3b very much.

Thoughts on my turn bet and how do we proceed from here?

My thoughts during hand were the flop c/min r doesn't look particularly strong, especially when he checks the turn. General range for him at this point is FD's, air, marginal made hands like T9, occasional set, with weighting towards FD's and air.

I really have no fucking clue what he c/min raises twice in a row with.

i'm not sure if it's common at 6max, but i see fish flat nutted hands pre looking to C/raise basically any flop (often minraise too), but i don't know if that's worth considering without a read that this particular guy is one of them.

i'm not sure what's optimal here but given he seems pretty fishy (C/minraise flop, C/minraise turn is a pretty rare line for decent 25nl regs) i'm inclined to assume he has at least some retarded shit like flush draws/ confused A9/flatted KK/AA in his range to just jam it in here. there are only really 7 combos that beat us.

shrug... either folding or jamming is really the only option at this point. You're either up vs AA,KK if he's a super bonk, something dumb like 96 but I'd expect him to lead the turn with this hand some, or sets. c/min raising twice is like probably never going to be a flush draw.
fwiw I'd size your bet smaller to entice calls from FDs and A9 type hands which he may have taken the flop line with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rpm

i'm not sure if it's common at 6max, but i see fish flat nutted hands pre looking to C/raise basically any flop (often minraise too), but i don't know if that's worth considering without a read that this particular guy is one of them.

i'm not sure what's optimal here but given he seems pretty fishy (C/minraise flop, C/minraise turn is a pretty rare line for decent 25nl regs) i'm inclined to assume he has at least some retarded shit like flush draws/ confused A9/flatted KK/AA in his range to just jam it in here. there are only really 7 combos that beat us.

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hmm interesting, I didn't really consider AA/KK. I guess its possible but probably unlikely and I'm not sure how much we could weight it given we have no reads as you said.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donachello

shrug... either folding or jamming is really the only option at this point. You're either up vs AA,KK if he's a super bonk, something dumb like 96 but I'd expect him to lead the turn with this hand some, or sets. c/min raising twice is like probably never going to be a flush draw.
fwiw I'd size your bet smaller to entice calls from FDs and A9 type hands which he may have taken the flop line with.

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Yea I agree he almost never has a FD once he raises turn again (and also 9's). I do think he can have these hands when he c/min r the flop and checks the turn, but a FD or a 9 is going to c/c turn like 100% of the time, esp since I bet so big.

So his range at this point I guess is pretty polarized to sets and air and there's not many combos of sets.

I don't know why you think its raise or fold though? Now that I think about it for a minute, calling seems better because imo he's very unlikely to continue bluffing on the river given that we've called two checkraises. Therefore, we can either fold if he shoves or check behind if he checks. That make sense or did I not consider something?

tbh I am not really sure why I concluded that lol. Maybe I was thinking he was never folding a FD and then I already said he never has a FD. Calling is infinitely better for what you stated

No AA or KK in his range. But let's construct a true range.

I'm really curious what the double check/minraise was. It seems kinda polarized. Barring sets, you have the nuts, that makes me just want to call. But the board is double suited, so re-raising is reasonable too. Given that he's trying to rep the nuts and shouldn't be doing this with fd's, I like calling and just getting to showdown like you said.

Turn: :qd: ($5.60, 2 players)
papyto26 checks, Hero bets $4.25, papyto26 raises to $8.50, Hero calls $4.25

River: :jh: ($22.60, 2 players)
papyto26 bets $31.97, Hero ???

Fold now?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by !Luck

No AA or KK in his range. But let's construct a true range.

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Go for it...



Also i fold river. I would've made turn bet slightly smaller. Disclaimer: IANGAP

If I had to put him on a single hand, it's 22. Whatever he has, he thinks he has the best hand. Could be overpair? Or TT, JJ?. I think his actions scream made hand not draw. There's so many hands you're ahead of, I think you have to call turn. Maybe he's a solid player trying to make you think he's a fish. But he's probably just a fish. You've come this far, now call the river too. But next time fold when he minraises the flop.

Id probably check behind on turn unless i have some feeling villain is bad rather than good - i.e did'nt buy in full.

Otherwise i have a plan for the turn - for me its bet/puke fold although in terms of relative hand strength vs the blinds you hand hasnt really changed - you opponents range is sets and decent FDs. Id not expect an FD to play like this.
If villain goes for a turn c/r - the only hands in the flop range that play the turn this way that you now beat is overpairs and id make these less than 5% of his total range.

I dont see why this is anything other than b/f for that reason unless you check and call a river bet

You have about 14 behind on the river, right? Pepito is giving off one serious 'I'm full of crap' vibe. So looking him up is definitely an option. I mean, who plays their big hands this way? He loses tons of value when you check it back flop and turn, like you easily could have, and the river shove says 'go away.' IDK, it just doesn't add up. If he has a set, take a note.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by couriermike

You have about 14 behind on the river, right? Pepito is giving off one serious 'I'm full of crap' vibe. So looking him up is definitely an option. I mean, who plays their big hands this way? He loses tons of value when you check it back flop and turn, like you easily could have, and the river shove says 'go away.' IDK, it just doesn't add up. If he has a set, take a note.

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yes, I have 13 something left behind at this point so we're getting likel 3:1 on a river call vs a fos line

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Id probably check behind on turn unless i have some feeling villain is bad rather than good - i.e did'nt buy in full.

Otherwise i have a plan for the turn - for me its bet/puke fold although in terms of relative hand strength vs the blinds you hand hasnt really changed - you opponents range is sets and decent FDs. Id not expect an FD to play like this.
If villain goes for a turn c/r - the only hands in the flop range that play the turn this way that you now beat is overpairs and id make these less than 5% of his total range.

I dont see why this is anything other than b/f for that reason unless you check and call a river bet

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imo checking the turn is a huge mistake because we have a pretty strong hand in absolute terms and we're doing pretty fucking well against a range that check/min raises this flop and then checks the turn.

I could be wrong though..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kfaess

imo checking the turn is a huge mistake because we have a pretty strong hand in absolute terms and we're doing pretty fucking well against a range that check/min raises this flop and then checks the turn.

I could be wrong though..

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If you believe this - and i think it would be my POV at the table at the time then the turn is clearly b/c and the river a super fast call.

In review - i dont like stacking off here as much as i do in real time

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miffed22001

In review - i dont like stacking off here as much as i do in real time

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lol if i had a nickel for every time this was the truth, i'd at least have bout tree fiddy by now