T8s turn spot

forum has seemed pretty quiet lately, so hope no one minds me posting so many hands.

BB has been playing unusually, I think he could c/r with Qx but not sure whether he'd fold it to a turn bet.

I thought I could b/c the turn here, but is checking behind and seeing a free river better?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

SB ($101.20)
BB ($106.45)
UTG ($101.50)
MP ($142.45)
CO ($199.90)
Hero (Button) ($112.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 10:club:, 8:club:
1 fold, MP bets $3, 1 fold, Hero calls $3, 1 fold, BB calls $2

Flop: ($9.50) 9:club:, Q:club:, A:spade: (3 players)
BB checks, MP bets $6.50, Hero calls $6.50, BB raises to $19, 1 fold, Hero calls $12.50

Turn: ($54) 8:spade: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero...

Why do you think he'd checkraise with Qx in a 3way pot? I certainly don't see that a lot.

I would check behind. It looks like he has two pair, or a combo draw (Acxc/ KcJc). He's not folding a lot.

Edit: Or maybe overshove and rep JT, that would certainly make him pauze for a second...

This line screams of Axcc to me.

I would check behind and not overly feel good if he bet big on a club river.

check turn and fold the river when he jams. He either has a monster draw, 2 pair or better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tom42

Why do you think he'd checkraise with Qx in a 3way pot? I certainly don't see that a lot.

I would check behind. It looks like he has two pair, or a combo draw (Acxc/ KcJc). He's not folding a lot.

Edit: Or maybe overshove and rep JT, that would certainly make him pauze for a second...

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this guy was playing badly, taking lots of weird aggressive lines. I could see him c/r flop with Qx and shutting down after being called.


I don't think overbet shoving folds out any more of the hands I'd want him to fold than a standard sized turn bet would. I can't see a thinking reg being in villains spot with a better hand than mine (pair of 8's) but if he could then I think overbet shoving could actually work.

Say you bet turn and he calls, which is extremely likely since he c/r'd 2 opponents on the flop, what is your plan for the river?

If he's that bad i usually wait for a better hand, and look to valuebet, induce bluffs... I'd still check behind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill

I can't see a thinking reg being in villains spot with a better hand than mine (pair of 8's) but if he could then I think overbet shoving could actually work.

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Axcc might play like that, thinking his weak ace is no longer good to bet for value after the flop action.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill

I can't see a thinking reg being in villains spot with a better hand than mine (pair of 8's) but if he could then I think overbet shoving could actually work.

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Villain has A3cc, c/r flop to get it in over a 3bet. Now he gets called and figures most of the calling range is probably Ax hands that beat his tp or JT so he checks.

He might also check all his two pair hands as well, given JT got there. I don't think he's checking to fold any of those hands though.

Just check behind and spike your straight or trips on river.

Noone wanna fold this flop?

bet the turn because he s never check-shoving and you ll get value from KJcc and KTcc

i d bet about 21 fwiw

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Genitruc

bet the turn because he s never check-shoving and you ll get value from KJcc and KTcc

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We block KTcc, and there are so many more combos of Axcc that would play this way than KJcc. If we account for the fact that KJcc will often just bet again, that makes it even less weighted towards KJcc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tom42

If he's that bad i usually wait for a better hand, and look to valuebet, induce bluffs... I'd still check behind.



Axcc might play like that, thinking his weak ace is no longer good to bet for value after the flop action.

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I usually b/c Axcc in villains shoes but its good to know that c/c is a line other players take.

as for my b/c I really think it's stupid now because he's never b/c anything I'm ahead of equity wise. if he did c/shove QTss or something he's got me dominated anyways. and as genitruc pointed out villain shouldn't normally be c/shove anything here.

villain was playing really weird/badly. Just doing lots of non standard stuff but running really well; seemed to me to be closer on the spectrum to aggro fish than reggy.

I bet turn, villain called, and then he open shoved on a nine river. I tanked, called, and was shown Q9

What range do you guys 3-bet the flop with in this spot? Do you min-bet or shove?

I think there's a case to be made for shoving the flop with this hand and a bunch of others (I know you're missing a lot of nut hands in our range because you flatted pre, but if he's c/r very wide he's still got to fold a lot and if he's a fish he's maybe not thinking very carefully about what we rep). Otherwise I think I'm in the fold camp, if you call it's pretty easy for him to play the rest of the hand correctly and put you in a position where you're forced to make lots of mistakes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Carroters

Noone wanna fold this flop?

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If you are calling pre with these hands, even after this flop action I think folding is an overall logical strategical error

As played I check behind turn

So folding postflop in a situation that arises very very infrequently will automatically generate a preflop mistake even though 98% of the time we're never in a spot like this and will make money with fold equity + equity against much weaker ranges than villain will show up with here?

These sort of statements often strike me as meaningless nonsense, In this case, this one certainly does.

I was more looking for an answer based on what people thought our of equity, chances of taking down this pot unimproved on blank turn rivers, implied odds vs reverse implied odds were like rather one of these answers.

would def check here, he's not folding better, and no reason to bloat the pot?