so im only folding out the hands i beat

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02-09-2011, 04:43 PM
kickass

so im only folding out the hands i beat

results appended to pokerstove.txt

14,850 games 0.001 secs 14,849,999 games/sec

Board: Kd Qd 5d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 50.024% 37.17% 12.85% 5520 1908.50 { AdKs }
Hand 1: 49.976% 37.12% 12.85% 5513 1908.50 { AcAh, AcAs, AhAs, KcKh, QcQh, QcQs, QhQs, AcKc, AhKh, KcQc, KhQh, AcKh, AhKc, AsKc, AsKh }

villain is 26 6 over 120 hands ish
---
he never called a 3 bet in like 120 hands not that many folk were 3 betting its $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($1.38)
UTG+1 ($5.73)
MP1 ($2.61)
kickass ($2.64)
MP3 ($2)
CO ($1.60)
BTN ($0.56)
SB ($2.08)
BB ($2)

Pre-Flop: ($0.05, 9 players) kickass is MP2 :ks: :ad:
[CO posts $0.02]
UTG raises to $0.08, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.08, kickass raises to $0.28, 5 folds, UTG calls $0.20, MP1 calls $0.20

Flop: :5d: :kd: :qd: ($0.89, 3 players)
UTG bets $0.20, MP1 folds, kickass goes all-in $2.36, UTG goes all-in $0.90

Turn: :2c: ($4.35, 2 players, 2 all-in)

River: :5h: ($4.35, 2 players, 2 all-in)
02-09-2011, 05:02 PM
OngBonga

He has $0.90 behind, we have tptk with nut flush draw, I don't see any other flop play here. If he has better and his hand holds up, nh etc.
02-09-2011, 05:07 PM
Viscaro

I like flatting flop, we have toppest pair wi the nfd, may as well let his super rare bluff combos continue, and draw against his super tight range with great odds. fwiw i'd fold this pre to a 6%pfr utg full ring nit, i'd much prefer having a pp or sc.
02-09-2011, 05:45 PM
couriermike

AA, KK, QQ have you beat. JJ with a diamond might come along. KQ has your hand beat. You're free-rolling AK. He probably folds AQ because he can't have a flush draw. He shouldn't have 55.

Oddly enough, it looks like you should call and draw.

I don't hate getting it in though just because you are 50% against his calling range, there's not alot behind, and what's already in the pot is overlay. So it's +EV.

Probably best to flat the tight utg opener preflop though.
02-09-2011, 06:42 PM
daven

call
02-09-2011, 06:54 PM
bikes

Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

call

wtf.

no jam. always jam here. and lul when he calls with like 99d
02-09-2011, 08:06 PM
caddie444

He has $0.70 behind on the flop = no brainer jam
02-09-2011, 08:14 PM
Carroters

Snap jam, he has waaaayyyyyyy more combos of shitty hands that are felting now, but not always on some turns than he has bluffs that are going to barrel off, but fold to a jam.

You absolutely not folding out all the hands you beat, not sure why you think this. Rather, you have good equity vs anything he canhave and are absolutely killing like 90% of his range.
02-09-2011, 09:11 PM
couriermike

Villain is 26/6 and raised 4x utg. His range should be pretty narrow.
02-09-2011, 10:56 PM
daven

i didn't notice stack sizes initially,
anyway,

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikes

wtf.

no jam. always jam here. and lul when he calls with like 99d

really? what about if he is 100bb deep?
villain is a 6% pfr. Surely he's folding a whole lot of crap like 9d9 that we'll get in on the turn regardless, and calling stuff that we aren't really that healthy against?
02-09-2011, 11:08 PM
revolvingiris

Seems like a jam to me?

Board: 5d Kd Qd

Hand 0: 64.468% { AdKs }
Hand 1: 35.532% { AcAh, AcAs, AhAs, KcKh, QcQh, QcQs, QhQs, AcKc, AhKh, AcQc, AhQh, AsQs, KcQc, KhQh, AcKh, AhKc, AsKc, AsKh, AcQh, AcQs, AhQc, AhQs, AsQc, AsQh, KcQh, KhQc, KsQc, KsQh }
02-09-2011, 11:51 PM
daven

Quote:

Originally Posted by revolvingiris

Seems like a jam to me?

Board: 5d Kd Qd

Hand 0: 64.468% { AdKs }
Hand 1: 35.532% { AcAh, AcAs, AhAs, KcKh, QcQh, QcQs, QhQs, AcKc, AhKh, AcQc, AhQh, AsQs, KcQc, KhQh, AcKh, AhKc, AsKc, AsKh, AcQh, AcQs, AhQc, AhQs, AsQc, AsQh, KcQh, KhQc, KsQc, KsQh }

is he calling a jam with AQ?
you're including KQo in his preflop bet-call range?
02-10-2011, 06:23 AM
Razvan729

my opinion is that he is calling your shove only with: KK, QQ, JJd, AJd and with that range stove says:

Board: 5d Qd Kd
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 66.439% 66.30% 00.14% 6564 13.50 { AdKs }
Hand 1: 33.561% 33.42% 00.14% 3309 13.50 { KK-QQ, JcJd, JdJh, JdJs, AcJd, AhJd, AsJd }

so its a good shove.

discounted AA cause he would for sure 4bet/shove pre.
02-10-2011, 02:56 PM
daven

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razvan729

KK-QQ, JcJd, JdJh, JdJs, AcJd, AhJd, AsJd .

discounted AA cause he would for sure 4bet/shove pre.

surely if you're going to discount AA then you have to discount AJ heavily, and JJ as well (open pre from utg? call a 3b pre? get it in with a non-nut flush draw?)
02-10-2011, 03:05 PM
d0zer

Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

surely if you're going to discount AA then you have to discount AJ heavily

Why?
02-10-2011, 04:23 PM
kickass

well spoon reckons im being results orientated. my range that i put in wasnt my range for villain just showing how well im doing vs the best hands in his range i was hoping there would be some dogshit in there that he couldnt let go of to make this play mega ++++ i thought that he might fold out AK sometimes and sometimes he would call. i'm never folding obviously so is shove better than call. I 3 bet pre because i was the third in line to either call or raise and i don't want to play this hand with the whole table in. is that a stupid reason to raise i know that i should fold if he shoves/4 bets.
02-10-2011, 05:17 PM
Icanhastreebet

fold pre.
02-10-2011, 06:31 PM
daven

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0zer

Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

surely if you're going to discount AA then you have to discount AJ heavily, and JJ as well (open pre from utg? call a 3b pre? get it in with a non-nut flush draw?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0zer

Why?

see bold, note villain is 6% pfr.
02-10-2011, 07:07 PM
d0zer

Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

see bold, note villain is 6% pfr.

villains who play like highNumber/6 fish stats usually aren't opening a positionally adjusted range, they usually hate folding to 3bets and they usually are horrible postflop.

As far as I can see, this all adds up to "why not AJo"? Seems likely enough to be at the bottom of his open raising range from any position.

I was commenting more on your "surely if you're going to discount AA then you have to discount AJ heavily" if/then because I don't see what discounting AA has to do with discounting AJ
02-10-2011, 10:54 PM
Razvan729

this is 2nl. discounted AA cause he just flats the 3bet and not 4bet/shove, if his smart enough to trap with AA calling a 3bet then he should be smart enough to fold here AA where there is nothing he beats except AK and he should realize that only AdK shoves here or KK, QQ. his stack shows me he isnt the type who can just call AA hoping to trap opps, he would for sure shove AA pre. A villain with that stack and stats will call you AJo on the 3bet and he will bet/call AI with AxJd , JJd cause he sees him self a favourite here with gutshot+FD draw, or just FD in case of JJd.

for 10nl+ the range i gave him is very wide maybe, but at 2nl is accurate. for 2nl and this type of villain, shoving flop is very ok.

daven you are very right with what you are saying and if the stakes were higher 10nl+ i would listen to you, but here for 2nl you are wrong, just because maybe you forgot what 2nl short stacks villains play is. i have a lot of respect for you as a poker player, but pls dont treat this guys like a 25nl reg. :)
02-10-2011, 11:41 PM
d0zer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razvan729

this is 2nl. discounted AA cause he just flats the 3bet and not 4bet/shove, if his smart enough to trap with AA calling a 3bet then he should be smart enough to fold here AA where there is nothing he beats except AK and he should realize that only AdK shoves here or KK, QQ. his stack shows me he isnt the type who can just call AA hoping to trap opps, he would for sure shove AA pre. A villain with that stack and stats will call you AJo on the 3bet and he will bet/call AI with AxJd , JJd cause he sees him self a favourite here with gutshot+FD draw, or just FD in case of JJd.

for 10nl+ the range i gave him is very wide maybe, but at 2nl is accurate. for 2nl and this type of villain, shoving flop is very ok.

daven you are very right with what you are saying and if the stakes were higher 10nl+ i would listen to you, but here for 2nl you are wrong, just because maybe you forgot what 2nl short stacks villains play is. i have a lot of respect for you as a poker player, but pls dont treat this guys like a 25nl reg. :)

Stakes don't matter, he's a 26/6 megafish.

His stack tells you little about how he's gunna play AA, you see passive fish slowplaying with aces plenty. Sure they'll be like min4betting or shoving a bunch also, but you can't eliminate AA, only discount it somewhat.

And what's with all this "smart enough to trap with AA"?
02-11-2011, 01:54 AM
daven

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0zer

villains who play like highNumber/6 fish stats usually aren't opening a positionally adjusted range, they usually hate folding to 3bets and they usually are horrible postflop.

no objections here,

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0zer

As far as I can see, this all adds up to "why not AJo"? Seems likely enough to be at the bottom of his open raising range from any position.

i mean that i doubt that it's in his calling range after his flop donk gets shoved over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0zer

I was commenting more on your "surely if you're going to discount AA then you have to discount AJ heavily" if/then because I don't see what discounting AA has to do with discounting AJ

they're unrelated, except that if someone is going to discount the things that suit their story but not the things that rebut it then there is a problem

also agree with all of this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0zer

Stakes don't matter, he's a 26/6 megafish.

His stack tells you little about how he's gunna play AA, you see passive fish slowplaying with aces plenty. Sure they'll be like min4betting or shoving a bunch also, but you can't eliminate AA, only discount it somewhat.

And what's with all this "smart enough to trap with AA"?
02-11-2011, 06:09 AM
Razvan729

when i said "smart enough to trap with AA" i meant that he might flat a 3bet to get more value from QQ, KK, when you 4bet/shove there are good players that will drop QQ,KK, AK thinking that 4bet/shove villain only does it with top of his range, so on QQ/KK/AK is better to fold, cause best case we are spliting.

if you just flat AA a 3bet you keep in his range QQ,KK,AK and see the flop as favourite and continue from there.

but i dont think villain in our case even considers what i said. is so wrong what i said? seems logic to me, but i may be wrong. hope though i explained right what i am thinking.
02-11-2011, 11:21 AM
OngBonga

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

fold pre.

Agreed. I didn't notice he has raised 6% of hands, I was mesmorised by the nuts AK mwaaaaa. What's his range here utg? QQ+? I reckon he limps AK/JJ.