wtf redline stats checkup

So my red line always used to be pretty much break even at 50NL+ over a million something hands and never worried about it too much but lately it looks pretty catastrophic and idk why:

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/6808/lolwat.gif



That's this month at 25NL
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/1985/positionej.jpg

Filtered for more than 2 players cos sb/bb would be ridiculous otherwise.


By number of players:
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5233/nrofplayers.gif


vs flop raise fold looks extremely fishy - I'll review some spots there.

I have never been that bothered with stats but there has to be something pretty obviously wrong here, right?
pls request filters if you need 'em.

You only show 6 positions but have up to 9 number of players??

If you played 6m I would say your WWSF% is pretty low for stats that tight but FR is a different animal. Check your agg numbers by street, and also try to find where your putting in move money only to fold later in hands. Your Cbet is pretty low for Nit ring as well if you ask me.

yah HEM lumps the positions together so UTG+UTG+1 is EP etc... it's retarded ino. If someone needs the positions exactly I can look for a proper filter.

It's all on FR tables.
My cb has gone down a lot just cos noone ever folds at 25NL - or at least that's what it feels like. I'd like to know what daven's looks like cos we are prett close in stats atm I think.
I think my turn cb could be definitely higher tho cos there's a lot of peeling and folding the turn going on.

filter you graph to show 'VPIP = true' and repost

Oh I see what you did there :)
So if I just stop paying the blinds I'll be fine I guess.
But then both of those should have been positive before. Unfortunately I can't import my old db for comparison for some reason. :(

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2783/vpiptrue.gif

^^ so basically I want it to look like that again witout the use of filters :P

No take a look at this - helped me

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...t-ever-791734/

it all looks good but w$wsf is a little low and flop c-bet seems low
maybe a little more bs in the basic strategy? in good spots etc

but i don't play FR so idk

seems like we see one of these posts about every 3 months in the BC, and every time someone links back to the 2p2 thread.

How bout everyone actually reads it this time and stops scrutinizing their red line?

You're playing so loose pre with a fairly low 3bet (relatively) and a lowish cbet and your W$WSF is probably too low so all this adds up to shitty redline?

I'd probably tighten up your opening range, and cbet a little more which shouldn't be hard if you're playing stronger ranges.

and 3b IP more

Win rate > red line

If you filter out the blinds and your red line is still negative, your game probably needs some work. Either that or your table selection is uber-shitty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kfaess

seems like we see one of these posts about every 3 months in the BC, and every time someone links back to the 2p2 thread.

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I don't usually read stats threads cos I don't have much to add to them. Will check out the 2+2 thread.
I don't care about the red line as much as I do abotu the green line. It just looked like it might be a leak. I'm happy about any input.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by d0zer

You're playing so loose pre with a fairly low 3bet (relatively) and a lowish cbet and your W$WSF is probably too low so all this adds up to shitty redline?

I'd probably tighten up your opening range, and cbet a little more which shouldn't be hard if you're playing stronger ranges.

and 3b IP more

---

You're probably right. I think the hands/textures I cb are pretty ok and cbetting more just for the heck of it would be a mistake. So if I want the W$WSF to go up I need to tighten up pre. The low 3b is cos the 25 enellers seem pretty confused with 3bets. They either spazz or play ridiculously conservative. There's not much in the middle so I try to stay clear of 3betting unless I have a good bit of history.

also read mpeth's posts (one so far, two pending) in dfly's blog

also look at # tables being played before and now. Redline typically drops as # of tables increases... especially if you're playing on the looser side of TAG 15-12

Oskar. How about you post 5 hands where you don't cbet the flop where you think you should? Or 5 where you do cbet but shouldn't?

Filter out blinds play and his graph looks awesome. So what?
Do you guys not see how big of a leak his red line really is?
The red line losses completely nullify his showdown winnings and he is breaking even over 50 THOUSAND hands! This means that OP does not have an edge at these stakes and it's as simple as that.

People are here are telling him to c-bet more, 3 bet more, read this post, read that post blah blah. None of that shit is going to help enough. In fact, just randomly increasing frequencies is probably going to make the problem worse.

OP my advice to you is to just work on your game as a whole and focus on playing better poker! You are clearly playing too many tables and not paying enough attention. Other players ARE profiting from all this money you are folding away.

Once you start playing better, the red line will come naturally.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by d0zer

You're playing so loose pre with a fairly low 3bet (relatively) and a lowish cbet and your W$WSF is probably too low so all this adds up to shitty redline?

I'd probably tighten up your opening range, and cbet a little more which shouldn't be hard if you're playing stronger ranges.

and 3b IP more

---

This was basically what I was going to say.

Your cbet and flop aggression is low meaning definitely up your cbet% and look for a few spots to bluff raise/float vs. weak ranges. Also, your turn cbet% looks a tad large so I'm wondering if you are double barreling certain spots where you end up c/f river a lot. I'd also suggest 3betting a tad more, specifically in the SB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kmind

Your cbet is low meaning definitely up your cbet%

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any chance of explaing why 58% cbet is too low here?
genuinely intrigued... i mean, you can obviously explain why you made the comment and i figure i (and others) would gain a lot from reading good reasoning for this

please!

Not sure if you're trying to be a dick because I know you have a lower cbet stat than usual and that's cool and works for you.

I'm just saying, and I know I rarely play FR, that his cbet stat of 58% is around where I used to be when I was breakeven at 6max. Everyone yelled to get that higher and boom my winrate instantly increased. I also know over millions of databased hands whether from friends, looking at other stat posts, etc. that most winners have a slightly higher % there.

I feel like oskar may play too much of a fit/fold type game and if you are going to have your cbet% that low, then you should compensate on later streets. I'm not so sure he does this (which you're probably good at). I can't say whether he's missing either value from cbets or picking up hands more hands with cbet bluffs, but I assume it's the latter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kmind

Not sure if you're trying to be a dick

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nope, sorry if it came across that way, i'm seriously interested in the reasoning behind your comment

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kmind

I'm just saying, and I know I rarely play FR, that his cbet stat of 58% is around where I used to be when I was breakeven at 6max. Everyone yelled to get that higher and boom my winrate instantly increased. I also know over millions of databased hands whether from friends, looking at other stat posts, etc. that most winners have a slightly higher % there.

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i'm interested in the WHY, not just doing what people say. Especially cos, e.g., doublefly = one of the winningest FR regs has cbet 49%, and the biggest winning regs in my games cluster around either 50% or 65%
I just don't see how cbet of 60% screams leak here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kmind

I feel like oskar may play too much of a fit/fold type game

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interesting, when you're opening 15% then you sure don't hit the board 60% of the time..

cleanup.that - 50k hands is not really a significant sample.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daven

also read mpeth's posts (one so far, two pending) in dfly's blog

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Can I have a link or something cos I don't know who those guys are. I suppose it's on 2+2?

Good call !Luck

This hand is one that the old me would have tripple barrelled all day long. Villain is 15/10. I expect him to 3b AK, JJ+ and call middle pairs, AQ, AJ, QK.
Reason I don't cb is because I think I have to tripple barrel once I do. The number of times I make the player note "stacks off with any pair" is what made me a lot more timid after moving down.
If I had some kind of backdoor draw I would cbet. It's really close.


$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($18.70)
UTG+1 ($44.48)
MP1 ($16.25)
MP2 ($33.12)
Hero ($32.27)
CO ($25)
BTN ($9.35)
SB ($8.15)
BB ($24.30)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 9 players) Hero is MP3 :9s: :tc:
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, CO folds, BTN folds, SB folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: :4s: :3h: :ks: ($1.60, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks


I'll post that one cos I have to post some hand. Unsurprisingly I agree with most of my betting decisions.


Some feeush. Don't expect to fold out worse. Would kind of cbet for protection. I think checking is best.

$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($25)
UTG+1 ($19.27)
MP1 ($81.21)
MP2 ($25)
MP3 ($20.39)
CO ($14.90)
BTN ($11.25)
SB ($17.25)
Hero ($26.37)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 9 players) Hero is BB :ks: :ah:
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls $0.25, BTN calls $0.25, SB folds, Hero raises to $1.25, CO calls $1, BTN calls $1

Flop: :qc: :6s: :6d: ($3.85, 3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: :jd: ($3.85, 3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $1.25, BTN folds, Hero folds

Final Pot: $5.10

CO wins $4.91 (net +$2.41)

Hero lost $1.25
BTN lost $1.25


45/0 - don't expect to fold out worse. could cb for protection.


$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
7 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($11.47)
UTG+1 ($31.28)
MP ($25)
CO ($8.75)
Hero ($25)
SB ($24.75)
BB ($8.75)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 7 players) Hero is BTN :6d: :6s:
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 folds, MP folds, CO folds, Hero raises to $1.10, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $0.85

Flop: :ac: :th: :9h: ($2.55, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

Turn: :5c: ($2.55, 2 players)
UTG bets $0.75, Hero folds

Final Pot: $3.30

UTG wins $3.18 (net +$1.33)

Hero lost $1.10



27/7 bad texture vs limp/caller.


$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($25)
UTG+1 ($20.74)
MP1 ($10.11)
MP2 ($11.25)
Hero ($26.77)
BTN ($25)
SB ($19.37)
BB ($81.21)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 8 players) Hero is CO :td: :ad:
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 folds, Hero raises to $1.10, BTN folds, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls $0.85

Flop: :3c: :8h: :4s: ($2.55, 2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks

Turn: :6d: ($2.55, 2 players)
MP1 bets $1.50, Hero folds

Final Pot: $4.05

MP1 wins $3.93 (net +$1.33)

Hero lost $1.10




This one is fkin terrible. villain is 28/5


$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($27.82)
UTG+1 ($25.95)
MP1 ($15.44)
Hero ($25)
MP3 ($27.04)
CO ($26.33)
BTN ($18.72)
SB ($25)
BB ($25)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 9 players) Hero is MP2 :tc: :jh:
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $1, MP3 folds, CO folds, BTN calls $1, SB folds, BB folds

Flop: :as: :8c: :4c: ($2.35, 2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.35, Hero folds

Final Pot: $4.70

BTN wins $4.59 (net +$1.24)

Hero lost $1



I really dunno about this one. Limper is 8/0 over 40 and sb is 19/13

$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($28.08)
UTG+1 ($24.97)
MP1 ($29.73)
MP2 ($18.20)
CO ($11.07)
Hero ($25)
SB ($25)
BB ($13.88)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 8 players) Hero is BTN :8h: :8d:
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.25, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero raises to $1.10, SB calls $1, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $0.85

Flop: :6d: :2s: :ad: ($3.55, 3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks

Turn: :4d: ($3.55, 3 players)
SB bets $2.25, UTG+1 folds, Hero folds

Final Pot: $5.80

SB wins $5.63 (net +$2.28)

Hero lost $1.10
UTG+1 lost $1.10

My mistake about the dick thing then but you seemed to focus on just me when almost everyone else mentioned it too.

You're more of an expert at FR than me for sure so you could easily be right. Doublefly is very good, didn't know his cbet was so low. I was going off of databases of winning players I personally know, some comments (or lack off regarding cbet%) in mpethybridge in the small stakes forum at 2+2 and the LeakBuster program in HEM.

As far as the why, there are a couple of reasons that I do it at least. Pick up dead money while bluffing is the main one because I was having difficulty winning on later streets and found the flop the easiest to either win right away or fire a double barrel. Most players at micro stakes are not going to exploit you and if they try to they do it in the very obvious spots. For the most part, by cbetting we create villain to play in unbalanced ways (they'll call with something or else fold) which is...easier...for micro-stakers. And yeah, I know, that doesn't mean it's optimal. But it is better than just giving up a lot on the turn/river when not cbetting.

At micro/smaller stakes, of course you won't hit 60% of the time but you'll find plenty of players that don't exploit you if you cbet more. Obv. at higher stakes I would definitely think a lower cbet seems more normal and I know a few big name regs, at least in 6max/HU, that have lower %'s.

Would also like to hear your thoughts on turn/river play when your cbet% is smaller.

Hand 1 - I'd cbet with the intention of double barreling.
Hand 2 - Again, I'd cbet and yeah we probably have the best hand now but I'd rather just bluff now then rely on the board to miss them/hit us.
Hand 3 - Yeah with no equity I'd just check
Hand 4 - Checking is fine
Hand 5 - I'd cbet with that texture
Hand 6 - I'd check with a ton calling and having no equity

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kmind

My mistake about the dick thing then but you seemed to focus on just me when almost everyone else mentioned it too.

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no worries dude. I didn't ask d0zer cos we all know he's just my gimmick account, and i didn't ask couriermike cos i had low expectations (hope he doesn't take too much offence at that!)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kmind

You're more of an expert at FR than me for sure so you could easily be right. Doublefly is very good, didn't know his cbet was so low. I was going off of databases of winning players I personally know, some comments (or lack off regarding cbet%) in mpethybridge in the small stakes forum at 2+2 and the LeakBuster program in HEM.

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I tend to ignore the leakbuster stuff in HEM for Full Ring cos it doesn't really distinguish and mostly applies better to shorthanded play = where the majority of the sampling occurs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kmind

As far as the why, there are a couple of reasons that I do it at least. Pick up dead money while bluffing is the main one because I was having difficulty winning on later streets and found the flop the easiest to either win right away or fire a double barrel. Most players at micro stakes are not going to exploit you and if they try to they do it in the very obvious spots.

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yep, those are good reasons. Barreling is such an interesting topic - obviously this sidetrack is already going crazy, i think this is incredibly relevant though. Wonder if it's more so in 6-max where ranges tend to be weaker?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kmind

Would also like to hear your thoughts on turn/river play when your cbet% is smaller.

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It's not being exploited for cbetting more that is the problem, it's the being in crap spots oop with air that gets to me.... especially when it's completely predictable that it's going to happen. Thing is, i'm missing out on a lot of one street dead money this way and i'm trying to address this.

Part of my reasoning has been that so many players turn hands face up on the turn vs a missed cbet, others are simply searching for an excuse to spew. Also, cos i have a low c-bet i end up not c-betting some fairly strong hands for balance - this has the effect of further lowering the stat. Thing is, they turn their hands even more faceup on the turn when the pot is big, i just need to look more closely. FWIW I think i need to cbet and barrel more, but i don't cbet 60% ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kmind

Hand 1 - I'd cbet with the intention of double barreling.

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I'm just not really confident I will get TT+ to fold. If he calls the turn with TT+ QK, sets, I need to barrel the river as well. - and there's my story of 100bb stdv imo. :D

The 66 on AT9s is one that I used to always cb, and I think I should start again. It's prolly even fine for value against this villain.

About the FR vs 6m - just look at my stats for 6 players and there you go. comment on those pls lol :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oskar

I'm just not really confident I will get TT+ to fold. If he calls the turn with TT+ QK, sets, I need to barrel the river as well. - and there's my story of 100bb stdv imo. :D

The 66 on AT9s is one that I used to always cb, and I think I should start again. It's prolly even fine for value against this villain.

---

If they're not folding TT-QQ then yeah for sure don't do it but I think they would be and if not then it's very easy to start value betting more hands ld0.

The 66 hand yeah if you did cbet it'd be for value but I think if you're going to have any hands that you don't cbet then it might as well be lower PP. I mean every other hand in your range have would have some sort of draw. What would be your non-cbetting range then?

Edit: daven - would you like me to move some of our discussion to a new topic? And oskar, I know it seems like we derailed a little bit but I think this is still on topic.

opening T9o and JTo in MP is where you are spewing.

not cbetting AK on Q66r also

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

opening T9o and JTo in MP is where you are spewing.

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Was just going to post this, even for 6m that would be true at these stakes. I would also Cbet a lot more Axx, Kxx, Qxx boards at nit ring vs "make sets get paid" types that may be sitting at a bunch of tables.

I'd also maybe start posting a bunch of hands with your standard bet sizing for Cbet and barrels too

Oskar, 50k is enough of a sample size to tell if you are currently beating the games or not.


edit: Would you ever expect to break even over 50k hands at 2nl? No, you would not. Ever.

So why do you think it is okay that you have broken even at 50nl over the same amount of hands?

I have no idea why you aren't c-betting some of these.

I'm only checking Hand 4 if I have reads to either confidently call or fold turns. otherwise a 27/7 is going to have so much crap that isn't pairs and if he's going to lead the turn with it any decent % and you're going to fold it doesn't matter if only worse is calling on the flop because your c bet's still going to be more profitable vs his range. If he's tighter preflop, checking's better. Basically with all else aside your c bet will show an immediate prpfit and checking will lead to making mistakes or an inferior play without decent reads.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

opening T9o and JTo in MP is where you are spewing.

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Quite possible. I'll run some filters on that. Last time I checked it was fine... but the times they are a changing.
edit: Out of 133 hands of 9T, JT in mp3/HJ I raised 44 and every time I was either isolating or there were droolers in the blinds. I'll keep looking for borderline hands tho.

Quote:

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not cbetting AK on Q66r also

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oh idk about that. Two unnkown gaystacks who limp/called in lp? What's the point? I might fold out 22-55 sometimes but that's about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Carroters

I'm only checking Hand 4...

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Oh you really don't have to comment on that one lol. I should delete it. I said it was fkin horrible. I only posted it cos !luck told me to post my worst flop betting decisions so I did :)







This is more likely to be a major problems Villain has been active over a small sample. It almost doesn't matter who or what he is cos this line is almost never a bluff.


$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($25)
UTG+1 ($25.57)
MP1 ($18.50)
Hero ($44.62)
CO ($25)
BTN ($79.96)
SB ($24)
BB ($7.70)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 8 players) Hero is MP2 :th: :9c:
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $1, CO folds, BTN folds, SB calls $0.90, BB folds

Flop: :tc: :jd: :7d: ($2.25, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.75, SB calls $1.75

Turn: :5d: ($5.75, 2 players)
SB bets $3.50, Hero calls $3.50

River: :2c: ($12.75, 2 players)
SB bets $9, Hero folds

Final Pot: $21.75

SB wins $21.12 (net +$5.87)

Hero lost $6.25

@ last hand you posted

I think you can easily find a fold on the turn. Because even if he does it with overs + flush draw you are not in great shape. Now this still maybe a fold even if the 5d is a 5h.

-!luck

It's the easiest fold ever on the turn.
idk why I called. retarded I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daven

i didn't ask couriermike cos i had low expectations

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That's what she said!

what I c-bet like all those cept the last one. You c-bet AK on Q66 w/ 2 droolers because turn barrels are going to be +eV on almost every turn.

Stop opening hands that flop terrible even if you are isoing or opening w/ droolers in the blinds. It's such a HUGE leak. If you are doing this are you opening like every Axo in the CO because that's probably a huge leak too especially if you just checking back a shitload. 3b you're button a lot more. Iunno if 15% cc @ FR is bad or what but that seems pretty loose for FR unless you are table selecting well enough to have tonnes of MW pots.

Also, No money FR, every1s a god damned nit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

Stop opening hands that flop terrible even if you are isoing or opening w/ droolers in the blinds. It's such a HUGE leak. If you are doing this are you opening like every Axo in the CO because that's probably a huge leak too especially if you just checking back a shitload.

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I def. agree with this too. I'd tighten up in middle position. This should also increase your cbet% due to a tighter range too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

Stop opening hands that flop terrible even if you are isoing or opening w/ droolers in the blinds. It's such a HUGE leak.

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:facepalm:

I've had this leak and like an obsessed ex-girlfriend it keeps finding its way back into my life. :wall:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

Also, No money FR, every1s a god damned nit.

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So, would a FR nit find more fish at 6-max? Would a FR nit have trouble with the aggression of 6-max? Would 6-max players recognize the nit and exploit the shit out of him?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oskar

Oh you really don't have to comment on that one lol. I should delete it. I said it was fkin horrible. I only posted it cos !luck told me to post my worst flop betting decisions so I did :)







This is more likely to be a major problems Villain has been active over a small sample. It almost doesn't matter who or what he is cos this line is almost never a bluff.


$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($25)
UTG+1 ($25.57)
MP1 ($18.50)
Hero ($44.62)
CO ($25)
BTN ($79.96)
SB ($24)
BB ($7.70)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 8 players) Hero is MP2 :th: :9c:
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $1, CO folds, BTN folds, SB calls $0.90, BB folds

Flop: :tc: :jd: :7d: ($2.25, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.75, SB calls $1.75

Turn: :5d: ($5.75, 2 players)
SB bets $3.50, Hero calls $3.50

River: :2c: ($12.75, 2 players)
SB bets $9, Hero folds

Final Pot: $21.75

SB wins $21.12 (net +$5.87)

Hero lost $6.25

---

FFS LOOK AT THE POSTFLOP SITUATIONS YOU END UP IN OPENING CRAP LIKE T9O IN MP THIS IS CLEARLY NOT PROFITABLE TO OPEN

53s would be a better open than this. If you can't see why then I don't know what to tell you. Just tighten up in EP/MP and cbet more and boom red line improves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cleanup.that

Filter out blinds play and his graph looks awesome. So what?
Do you guys not see how big of a leak his red line really is?
The red line losses completely nullify his showdown winnings and he is breaking even over 50 THOUSAND hands! This means that OP does not have an edge at these stakes and it's as simple as that.

People are here are telling him to c-bet more, 3 bet more, read this post, read that post blah blah. None of that shit is going to help enough. In fact, just randomly increasing frequencies is probably going to make the problem worse.

OP my advice to you is to just work on your game as a whole and focus on playing better poker! You are clearly playing too many tables and not paying enough attention. Other players ARE profiting from all this money you are folding away.

Once you start playing better, the red line will come naturally.

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Hes already beaten the games before - did you not read his original post?

50k hands is 2 weeks work for a lot of FR grinders

Alright from someone that has had a pretty ridic red line in the past. I would say that definitely like the link says, folding in the blinds plays a significant role.

In your case, you have a high river call efficiency, a pretty low WTSD given your won at SD is like 50ish%.

I can't overly explain the 24% wtsd to 50% won at SD. I'd say mine is around 30% wtsd vs 50% won at SD. This could definitely be a hand reading thing. This could also be a 'betting the river' thing, where its probably best to either check and get to SD, or c/c vs their range. Instead you are potentially betting and they are folding (though in this case your non-sd would go up.. which it clearly isn't.. so tough to say if this is really happening).

Further, a low WTSD in itself means you're probably folding quite a bit of rivers. Folding vs calling rivers will make a VERY big difference in your red line. Not necessarily a GOOD difference, but a difference nonetheless. I say not necessarily good, because I don't think making a crappy call for the sake of red line vs blue is good.

I definitely had a very big red line at times because I was being a mega station.

I'd also agree with the posts saying winrate > red line. At the end of the day, if you're winning then good!

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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

FFS LOOK AT THE POSTFLOP SITUATIONS YOU END UP IN OPENING CRAP LIKE T9O IN MP THIS IS CLEARLY NOT PROFITABLE TO OPEN

53s would be a better open than this. If you can't see why then I don't know what to tell you. Just tighten up in EP/MP and cbet more and boom red line improves.

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If opening a hand like T9o,JTo from mp gets you into just one bad spot per session, it will make these plays unprofitable for you.

I play 6 max and sometimes I find table conditions that wont allow me to raise hands like this even from the CO. I could only imagine how much this is costing you from MP in a 9 handed game. It is too loose, just stop doing it.

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Originally Posted by PlayToWin

So, would a FR nit find more fish at 6-max? Would a FR nit have trouble with the aggression of 6-max? Would 6-max players recognize the nit and exploit the shit out of him?

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Oops, I thought the thread was over.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PlayToWin

So, would a FR nit find more fish at 6-max?

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Not really, but villain's ranges are wider and you can play more hands vs bad players.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PlayToWin

Would a FR nit have trouble with the aggression of 6-max?

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Depends on how nitty you are and how well you hand read imo, but if you're any good at poker you shouldn't have problems adjusting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PlayToWin

Would 6-max players recognize the nit and exploit the shit out of him?

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Lolz I do this now at FR. Anyone playing 10/8ish are so easy to play against. Just pound the shit out of them until they get a hand. Then fold, and start up again. Ezgame.

Oskar, and anyone else playing FR AND using HEM:
Use this report to split your stats up instead of havign them lumped together in 6max.

Position (Full Ring) - Holdem Manager Forums

thx for that!

And thx everyone for the imput. I've made some changes to my hand selection - and trying to find more good cbet spots.
Nobody commented on my positional cbet which looks fkin aweful... so I think I need to point that out. That's a major leak right there but I'll have to check what exactly is going on there cos it makes no sense that I would have the same cbet % utg and otb. o_O

I'd be really interested in an update after X amount of hands (whatever you want X to be) if that's cool.