Building a player profile

I'm trying to build player profiles for .10/.25 FR and looking for some opinions. HM allows you label 24 profiles, (Rock Lion, ABC etc) Stars has 8 color labels and I assume most sites have the same. My question is at the micro levels, and even at low stakes how many different player categories do you need?

I have heard some people use 16, some use 12 all the way down to 6 categories. The one system I saw uses 16 different profiles going from the tightest to loosest, to no structure at all. For example on the tight side it identifies Cards as a player who’s VPIP is <12, PFR <10, WTSD <20, next comes a Rock who’s VPIP is <12, PFR is between <10, WTSD >20, then comes Mouse, Monkey and Calling Station who all have VPIP of 12, PFR <10 and all WTSD of between 20-30. Next comes 3 categories for TAG players: ABC, Lion and Eagle, Takes into account VPIP,PFR,AF, 3bet, Steal &WTSD percentages and lastly 6 categories for loose players gamblers, man, fish, whale, crown, and snake

I understand we want as much info as possible in order to make profitable decisions. But in the micro and even in the lower stakes, is not more profitable in the long run to keep are play straight forward and if that’s true do we need 16 or 20 different profiles? I was thinking, keep the categories simple and make the notes more detailed. At the micro stakes are we going to play a Card different than a Rock in most cases? Thanks and I appreciate any thoughts on this matter

Hi , welcome to FTR , I think you got lost on the way to the Zoo.;) .

seriously tho,

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Originally Posted by CaptSammy

I was thinking, keep the categories simple and make the notes more detailed.

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I think this is the way to go .^^^^

And using the colour coded system will help you table select at a glance on pokerstars .

Zoo animals are ok for your personal reference, but if you want to discuss player types and hand histories you might have trouble communicating ideas.

i.e. UTG was a monkey !!

;)

I use the color codes at Stars, but mostly just for table/seat selecting, as you can see who's who from the lobby and before you play a hand. I don't put a whole ton of value in these categories much past this though. Solid note-taking is essential and helps a lot.

White - Unknown
Green - Loose Passive (Fish)
Brown - Rock (Fish)
Blue - Shorty (Fish)
Red - Solid Reg (Tagg/Lagg/Slagg)
Pink - ABC Reg (meh, fish)
Orange - Maniac (fish)
Yellow - Friends

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Originally Posted by celtic123

Hi , welcome to FTR , I think you got lost on the way to the Zoo.;) .

seriously tho,




I think this is the way to go .^^^^

And using the colour coded system will help you table select at a glance on pokerstars .

Zoo animals are ok for your personal reference, but if you want to discuss player types and hand histories you might have trouble communicating ideas.

i.e. UTG was a monkey !!

;)

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:D Thanks glad to be here. Ya that's what I was thinking with regard to color system for stars table selection. I just switched to cash from S&G's and that's what I did there I'm using HM for cash tables and they also have a add on product table scanner so I want to progrm that as well. Somthing to quickly identify who Im with. Fish Rock etc. I was going to use Solid, TAG, LAG, TPAS, LPAS and Fish, but I think the better way is to use animals, etc for to quickly classify as well as colors and save the TAG LAG etc for the detailed part of the profile.

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Originally Posted by StarGrinder

I use the color codes at Stars, but mostly just for table/seat selecting, as you can see who's who from the lobby and before you play a hand. I don't put a whole ton of value in these categories much past this though. Solid note-taking is essential and helps a lot.

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Thanks for the response. I agree. I used a similar system for S&G's and that was my intention for cash as well, but then I started seeing other guys using a lot of categoreies thought maybe I missed somthing.

The problem with categorizing players is people tend to use them as a crutch for decision making. Just because you categorize players A & B as ________ doesn't mean they open the same range or play the same way throughout a hand. But then again, every player that isn't a decent reg or a maniac is constantly playing their hands face up anyway so...

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Originally Posted by StarGrinder

White - Unknown
Green - Loose Passive (Fish)
*Brown - Rock (Fish)
*Blue - Shorty (Fish)
Red - Solid Reg (Tagg/Lagg/Slagg)
Pink - ABC Reg (meh, fish)
*Orange - Maniac (fish)
Yellow - Friends

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Star would you elaborate a little on these?

*Brown - I'm not sure of what you would mean by Rock/fish?
*Blue - I'm assuming your talking a short stacker?
*Orange - assuming just all over the board type retard fish?

Just curious as I need to improve my system as well. I've pretty much been sticking with red for taggs and green for fish so I obviously need to expand and make it more comprehensive.

Thanks

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Originally Posted by HarleyGuy13

Star would you elaborate a little on these?

*Brown - I'm not sure of what you would mean by Rock/fish?
*Blue - I'm assuming your talking a short stacker?
*Orange - assuming just all over the board type retard fish?

Just curious as I need to improve my system as well. I've pretty much been sticking with red for taggs and green for fish so I obviously need to expand and make it more comprehensive.

Thanks

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Brown - Rock, as in nit.
Fit or fold. Extremely weak-tight, very narrow range obv. Plays most hands face-up. You can set hunt against these guys with the 10:1 implied odds because they can't fold over-pairs. Conversely, you can also flat them in LP with pretty much ATC b/c if they miss the flop with two unpaired over-cards, they almost always check/fold unless they have a decent draw. I do consider the rock a fish, but he's more of a timid catfish rather than a whale. You want to sit to the right of these guys and steal their blinds all day.

Blue - Short stack, aka fish
I say fish, b/c I don't run in to very many short stacks that are any good. Most are just as exploitable as the rock, but obv SPR is a lot lower and you have to make bets accordingly. And when playing on 40-100bb tables, it makes it even harder since they're not often 3betting AI for 40bb when facing an initial 3x PFR. I don't even really use this color code, unless I find a good reg short stack. Note: I have yet to find one <50nl. You usually want these guys sitting to your right, especially if they're loose, or overly-aggressive. You can sit to their right if they're tight and not-shove happy.

Orange - Maniac, yes as in retard fish
If a guy is running 78/65 over 60 hands, he's getting marked orange. However, if he's this much of a maniac, he's not going to be around for long. But at least I know not to sit to his right if I do happen to run in to him again, regardless if he's learned to tighten up. Sometimes these are just guys on tilt you've encountered for the first time too.

Most guys get marked as unknowns unless it's painfully obvious which player type they are. Like it's much easier to spot a fish than it is a rock. What you think is a rock might be a good reg but has been getting a run of 72o for the past 80 hands in terrible situations. So don't be lazy about changing a player type if it calls for it.

ALWAYS take good notes. I've really been focusing on this lately, which is why I'm only playing 2 tables ATM.

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Originally Posted by HarleyGuy13

Star would you elaborate a little on these?

*Brown - I'm not sure of what you would mean by Rock/fish?
*Blue - I'm assuming your talking a short stacker?
*Orange - assuming just all over the board type retard fish?

Just curious as I need to improve my system as well. I've pretty much been sticking with red for taggs and green for fish so I obviously need to expand and make it more comprehensive.

Thanks

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one approach

purple = fast dead money
yellow = nit
green = wannabe tag
red = decent/troublemaker

stats + notes help more than the colour-coding after i'm seated though

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Originally Posted by daven

stats + notes help more than the colour-coding after i'm seated though

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Also this.

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Originally Posted by StarGrinder

ALWAYS take good notes. I've really been focusing on this lately, which is why I'm only playing 2 tables ATM.

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Great post.
I found out the two table and good notes the hard way this past week. Good thing I practice good bankroll management. :( I'm use to multi tabling in S&G Definitly have to make some changes for cash. I want to use the categories more for before I sit down; notes and stats during play. So once those of us that need to set up some categories next have to work on the best way to exploit all of them right?

green = want to sit with this person

and thats about it for me

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Originally Posted by mbiz

green = want to sit with this person

and thats about it for me

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For table selection I don't think one is enough. But I think 10+ is too much. I'm thinking about 5 or 6. I think you want to identify the: Strong, Weak, Fish, Short Stack and Solid players for sure before you sit down. Once you have sat down I think the best way is to make detailed notes on the players you're sitting with and update them as needed.

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Originally Posted by CaptSammy

For table selection I don't think one is enough. But I think 10+ is too much. I'm thinking about 5 or 6. I think you want to identify the: Strong, Weak, Fish, Short Stack and Solid players for sure before you sit down. Once you have sat down I think the best way is to make detailed notes on the players you're sitting with and update them as needed.

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This basically.

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Originally Posted by StarGrinder

I use the color codes at Stars, but mostly just for table/seat selecting, as you can see who's who from the lobby and before you play a hand. I don't put a whole ton of value in these categories much past this though. Solid note-taking is essential and helps a lot.

White - Unknown
Green - Loose Passive (Fish)
Brown - Rock (Fish)
Blue - Shorty (Fish)
Red - Solid Reg (Tagg/Lagg/Slagg)
Pink - ABC Reg (meh, fish)
Orange - Maniac (fish)
Yellow - Friends

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Colorful notes on PokerStars are great.