25NL Rush 6max, overpair backraised on flop

Villain's a tag. He had nitty stats over a small sample when this hand was played. What should I do on the flop?


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

Button ($25.85)
SB ($25.10)
BB ($10.70)
UTG ($44.39)
Hero (MP) ($37.40)
CO ($96.73)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif
UTG bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, 3 folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.35) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif (3 players)
BB bets $1.50, UTG calls $1.50, Hero raises to $5, 1 fold, UTG raises to $10, Hero ?

shove is tempting, but wrong my opinion. i see him doing this 44, JJ+, and from that we only beat JJ and we have 2 outs. so i would fold this here.

Why were you raising this flop if you weren't intending on getting it in?

That said... put him on a range. Proceed

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Originally Posted by Donachello

Why were you raising this flop if you weren't intending on getting it in?

That said... put him on a range. Proceed

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For value and protection, like always pretty much. I'm happy to get folds. I'm happy to get called. Getting reraised is a little disconcerting, though it should happen rarely.

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Originally Posted by couriermike

For value and protection

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Protection isn't a reason to bet.

Ask yourself what worse is calling your raise and what better is folding.

I see plenty of combos of worse: 55,77-JJ that may call, but these hands are incredibly wary of a raise. It's just such a dry board. I don't like your raise without some specific read that one of the two opponents is the type to call down light on multiple streets with TPTK or some shit. Villain being a nit sort of tilts things towards you never getting called when you're ahead, and never getting a better hand to fold.

As played; I agree with Razvan's estimation of villain's range of 44 and JJ+. Instafold.

Quote:

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Why were you raising this flop if you weren't intending on getting it in?

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Absolutely. With a flop like this the only reason to bet is to get to the felt. The problem is that the only hands that'll call you will be at least as good, but more likely better. With him being a nit, he's probably got trips or 44, KK, AA.... so.

Fold. You failed preflop. Shouldhave 3bet him there. If he shoves he got AA, KK, possibly AK, AQ, JJ (but hardly if he is nit). If he calls I would be more inclined to shove postflop. Thats the way rush poker goes.

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Originally Posted by couriermike

I'm happy to get folds

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Wat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Wat.

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Calling here is basically giving a free card to two people and one pair hands are very vulnerable, plus there are worse hands that can call the raise like smaller overpairs. Maybe I should have just called because the flop is so dry, but I think it's bad to let people see cards for free when you're likely best but vulnerable, especially multi-way. What do you think about that?

And if everybody folds, that is fine. Taking down the pot is always good. I'm not raising trying to fold people but for value and protection, like I said.

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Originally Posted by Nekrogovner

Fold. You failed preflop. Shouldhave 3bet him there. If he shoves he got AA, KK, possibly AK, AQ, JJ (but hardly if he is nit). If he calls I would be more inclined to shove postflop. Thats the way rush poker goes.

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When you 3-bet a nit's utg open with QQ you turn your hand into a bluff because you're behind the range he continues with. QQ will have more value flatting in that spot.

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Wat.

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lolololol exactly what I thought upon reading that.

As far as I can recall... I've never once turned QQ into a bluff on a 636 board and I can't see a single circumstance where I would ever at any point in poker.

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When you 3-bet a nit's utg open with QQ you turn your hand into a bluff

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WAT? How?
You've admitted that you only have a small sampling of his hands. That's not nearly enough to determine that he's so tight that he squeeks when he walks. So what beats you? A random 6, 44, AA or KK? If he's really a nit I doubt the 6. AA or KK should've re-raised pre---especially being oop...get to the felt.... :mischief:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by couriermike

When you 3-bet a nit's utg open with QQ you turn your hand into a bluff because you're behind the range he continues with. QQ will have more value flatting in that spot.

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That is true, in non-rush poker. In rush, if you don't hit the set with those queens, and villain bets you all the way (or reraises you on a flop) you are pretty much behind 95% of time.

Therefore, failing to 3bet, and therefore isolate only the strongest hands preflop can get you into a lots of trouble later. There is no much of nuclear physics there like in normal poker. If you get 4bet from UTG, you can easily put villain on hand based on his tendencies...so over 75% of time you will run into AA or KK, and rest of the time a gambler with AK, AQ, or QQ-22.

Flatting vs this villain's UTG open is fine given he'll continue only with QQ+ and AK vs a 3bet, a range which QQ only has 40% equity against which he'll 4bet and put hero in a difficult spot, and he'll fold all his other hands and all we'll do is scoop up his opening bet and the blinds, wasting the potential value of a monster hand such as QQ. Also by flatting we keep his range the widest and allow for other villains to squeeze whom we may be more comfortable stacking off against. That being said, flatting QQ+, AK is also standard in this spot imo unless you have some reads that he likes to stack off light.