QQ oop 4b pot

villain is relative unknown but already showing a love of the 3-bet. 25-12-9. I 4b pre for value, flop sucks balls cos it smashes his perception of my range AND a large chunk of his calling range. I just don't see him calling a c-bet with stuff I beat and it's hard to bluff effectively here. But giving up seems gross, and I have flush out equity even vs his calling range. Thoughts?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($25.58)
BB ($20.02)
UTG ($36)
UTG+1 ($25)
Hero (MP1) ($40.52)
MP2 ($30.41)
CO ($21.25)
Button ($46.92)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif
2 folds, Hero bets $0.85, 1 fold, CO raises to $2.90, 3 folds, Hero raises to $5.50, CO calls $2.60

Flop: ($11.35) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif (2 players)
um, ok, how big?

i would c/r or if he checks back lead turn.

How does villain see you? Does he think you could be 4-bet bluffing?

I don't think he has KK+ because he didn't 5-bet shove. If he has an ace, of course he's never folding, but I don't think he has an ace all the time. Against QQ, JJ, AK and AQs (of course his range could be wider), you're 54%. Say he folds QQ and JJ when you shove, that's a third of his range and you're 35% against the aces he calls with. So, if you did shove (just checking out the EV as a benchmark), you win 11 a third of the time, and two thirds of the time, you win 26 a third of those times and lose 15 two thirds of those times, for a final EV of about $2.80.

So, even tho shoving rarely gets called by worse or folds better, you have alot of equity in the pot right now, and I think you should shove to capture it.

alot of that has to do with the fact that it's a 4-bet pot. you have considerable equity in a huge pot, so you kinda have to go with it.

I think that your 4bet is too small for starters. Granted his stack size is under 100BB so I can see making it this size, however, I think that if you make it more like 6.00 -6.25 you're more likely to get it in pre which I assume is a good thing vs this guy. In general I find that making it less than 2x isn't going to fold out too much that he decided to 3bet with.

It's kind of a fucked spot because you're bet calling all of your Ax and he also has a lot of Ax. I think you basically just either have to bet enough to give yourself correct odds to call with your flush outs or possibly check and evaluate based on his bet size. I mean, betting is semi-bluffing since he never has worse when he calls or raises but checking turns your hand super face up. shrug.... I probably would check here and most likely fold but I'm a nit :P

wtf @ the 4b size OOP, b/c the flop(hint:bet rly tiny)

what she said ^

What's wrong with a checkraise? It gives you both fold equity and completely shifts his perception of your range.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by couriermike

you have considerable equity in a huge pot, so you kinda have to go with it.

---

So if we checked and Villain shoved, you would call?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

What's wrong with a checkraise? It gives you both fold equity and completely shifts his perception of your range.

---

pretty sure only very terrible players are b/fing this flop, also what the hell are you repping by c/r'ing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by caddie444

pretty sure only very terrible players are b/fing this flop, also what the hell are you repping by c/r'ing?

---

Well you're repping AxKs and QQ and KK both with a spade somewhere in there.

The big reason I bring it up is because I saw this particular situation in NLHE Theory and Practice the other day. Maybe I read it wrong, but it sure made sense to me then. They suggested a C/R on the turn IIRC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

So if we checked and Villain shoved, you would call?

---

no, the FE (there is some) is necessary to make it +EV. ofc not calling ai with a draw. but shoving is +EV (probably) while c/f'ing is 0EV. you could b/c i guess but that probably prices you in, so just shove.

so i meant fold equity + showdown equity.

treebet and micro's b/c line seems designed to keep the bluffs in. i guess he still has alot of those if he's 3bet happy but it would take a good read to think he shoves anything other than an ace after being 4-bet. of course if his ace is not very good, he might not shove but still wouldn't fold. possibly he folds those to a shove.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

So if we checked and Villain shoved, you would call?

---

The question is not addressed to me but I'll take a shot:
if villain shoves all hands where he holds an A (or two) without a spade K, and his KK's without the Ks, his range is AA,KcKd,KcKh,KdKh,AcKc,AdKd,AhKh,AcQc,AdQd,AhQh,Ac Kd,AcKh,AdKc,AdKh,AhKc,AhKd,AcQd,AcQh,AdQc,AdQh,Ah Qc,AhQd
then it's a call (40% equity, 36% pot odds).

Is this a good shoving range for villain when he is checked to? Can't think of what else he would want to shove with (I am interested because that's what I would consider shoving with if I was him, wanna know if it's a decent play)