turned bottom set on scurry board

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11-26-2010, 01:58 PM
thelorax

turned bottom set on scurry board

Villain is 24/12 with agg 64 over small sample. so hes been fairly aggressive. Havent seen him show down any hands yet.

Im wondering if i should
fold turn?
check back river?
bet fold river for something kinda gay?

I mean his range is like:
-maybe 2 pairs ..idk if he 3bets these..if he doesn't I guess I have to check river back
-bigger sets( although I assume hes at least 3betting KK pre. idk though.)
-and AJ

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($29.18)
Hero (UTG+1) ($34.01)
MP1 ($25)
MP2 ($97.91)
CO ($14.84)
Button ($23.97)
SB ($24.25)
BB ($27.53)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif
1 fold, Hero bets $0.75, 5 folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.60) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($1.60) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets $0.25, Hero raises to $1.75, BB raises to $4.50, Hero calls $2.75

River: ($10.60) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif (2 players)
BB checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero???
11-26-2010, 03:29 PM
nickatina-69

i think you should bet flop
11-26-2010, 03:53 PM
Nekrogovner

Well, there are few reasons he would check the river for:

1. he is trying to trap you
2. he is scared of spade that came
3. his bluff on turn failed

I would probably bet 3-5$ and watch in horror as I lose to AJ (both spades :D )
11-26-2010, 04:03 PM
philly and the phanatics

against QQ,TT,AJs,KQs,KTs,QTs,AJo,KQo,KTo, AsKs you have 53% equity on the turn, so i would go ahead and get it in there....but this is probably spew :( lol ill wait for some better players opinion
11-26-2010, 04:05 PM
JustinSKS

fold preflop?
11-26-2010, 04:15 PM
thelorax

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinSKS

fold preflop?

sometimes.. mp2 is a massive station fish though so I opened.

you fold AA pre here rite?
11-26-2010, 04:18 PM
thelorax

Quote:

Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics

against QQ,TT,AJs,KQs,KTs,QTs,AJo,KQo,KTo, AsKs you have 53% equity on the turn, so i would go ahead and get it in there....but this is probably spew :( lol ill wait for some better players opinion

Philly, do you think we can safely include all those 2pairs in his range?
11-26-2010, 04:18 PM
philly and the phanatics

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinSKS

fold preflop?

seriously though, i intended to touch on this but i forgot...good point justin, i fold this pre like 90% of the time
11-26-2010, 04:20 PM
philly and the phanatics

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelorax

Philly, do you think we can safely include all those 2pairs in his range?

no thats why i said it might be spew and id wait for someone else, but i didnt even include QTo in which case it would be hugely EV+... you said hes been aggressive so it would make sense that he would have a lot more 2pairs than str8s/sets when taking this line, but i could be wrong
11-26-2010, 04:39 PM
thelorax

Justin, so your pp range here is like 77+?
under what circumstances, if any, are you opening wider?
11-26-2010, 04:47 PM
HarleyGuy13

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelorax

Villain is 24/12 with agg 64 over small sample. so hes been fairly aggressive. Havent seen him show down any hands yet.

Im wondering if i should
fold turn?
check back river?
bet fold river for something kinda gay?

I mean his range is like:
-maybe 2 pairs ..idk if he 3bets these..if he doesn't I guess I have to check river back
-bigger sets( although I assume hes at least 3betting KK pre. idk though.)
-and AJ

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($29.18)
Hero (UTG+1) ($34.01)
MP1 ($25)
MP2 ($97.91)
CO ($14.84)
Button ($23.97)
SB ($24.25)
BB ($27.53)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 5:club:, 5:diamond:
1 fold, Hero bets $0.75, 5 folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.60) Q:spade:, 10:heart:, K:club: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($1.60) 5:spade: (2 players)
BB bets $0.25, Hero raises to $1.75, BB raises to $4.50, Hero calls $2.75

River: ($10.60) 6:spade: (2 players)
BB checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero???

Haven't read any replys but I am going to work through this first. Not meaning to high jack your thread but I am doing this more for myself than trying to help you out. Don't think I am qualified to assist you tbh!

Pre-flop UTG I would have raised 4x ($1.00) which is my standard opening. As for a range I would be thinking something like:{22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,A 8o+} maybe a little more? This puts you at 47.889%.

Can't be to excited about this flop but you do have position. I myself don't like checking behind I would rather bet the flop and fold to any type of raise. I think by checking you assure him you didn't get any part of it either and I would rather represent since you started the betting and even if we don't adjust his range you equity just plummeted with this flop so I would think a bluff is about your only hope since you only have roughly 8% chance of hitting your set.(is this flawed thinking?)

So I get myself pretty lost at this point because I don't know how to designate suits on pokerstove.

I like the call on the and think I would just check it down on the river as well.
11-26-2010, 05:01 PM
philly and the phanatics

harley brings up a good point, your line looks FULL OF SHIT, all you rep is 55 imo.....thats another reason i would think he is 3betting these 2pairs
11-26-2010, 05:04 PM
thelorax

Harley,
I also like betting the flop more than checking back..get value from Ax or w/e, get him to fold better pp's (though thats only like 66-88)
/ im like never checking back tp+ here unless I know he'll spazz if I do so my line looks kinda like air which I guess makes a turn shove better? idk
11-26-2010, 05:08 PM
thelorax

Quote:

Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics

harley brings up a good point, your line looks FULL OF SHIT, all you rep is 55 imo.....thats another reason i would think he is 3betting these 2pairs

Yeah..this is what I started to think after reading Harleys post.
11-26-2010, 05:34 PM
Icanhastreebet

as played get it in on turn
c-bet flop for sure
open pre is fine unless people are giving you trouble IP by 3bing and cold calling a bunch. Ofcourse open pre is bad if you're inexperienced but in a really soft game you want to play pots w/ the fish so this is one way to play more pots with the fish(Especially if the biggest fish is in the blinds cuz u r IP etc)
11-26-2010, 05:44 PM
thelorax

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

as played get it in on turn
c-bet flop for sure
open pre is fine unless people are giving you trouble IP by 3bing and cold calling a bunch. Ofcourse open pre is bad if you're inexperienced but in a really soft game you want to play pots w/ the fish so this is one way to play more pots with the fish(Especially if the biggest fish is in the blinds cuz u r IP etc)

when cbetting here and getting called, what turns are you barreling? or are you just shutting down?
11-26-2010, 05:51 PM
daven

basically most of what harley and yaawn said makes a bunch of sense

preflop is ok, fold is also fine.
Flop is ok
turn is pretty fdo time to 4b/get it in
you'll probably want to put him on a range or something
[AK/KQ/KT/QT/AJ/KJ/QJ/TJ/9J/Asxs/TT]
11-27-2010, 02:59 PM
thelorax

1.whos yaawn?

2.[KQ, AJ, KJ, QTs, KTs, TT, Axss]
11-27-2010, 03:18 PM
HarleyGuy13

Icanhastreebet AKA: Yaawn
11-27-2010, 03:39 PM
thelorax

Ohh ok. Thanks.

I also realize were good vs this range and we should be getting it in on the turn.

Just too results oriented imo :)
11-28-2010, 02:29 AM
daviddem

Personally I can't see him on the river with top pair/two pairs or a set. Giving a free card like he does on the turn with his minbet while holding two pairs or a set would be pretty retarded given the super wet board and the ton of draws in your range (mostly straight draws). That leaves him with a flopped straight, most probably AJ. That makes more sense to slowplay/minbet/rope in with, because the flush draws in your range are few and far bewteen (AsQs,AsJs). I'll give you that oversets are still remotely possible because people slow play sets way too much, but to slowplay two pairs on this board he'd have to be a madman.

So I may be completely wrong (and feel free to call me an idiot for disagreeing with everybody else), but nevertheless it's interesting to see how to play this assuming we "know" he has a straight. First I think you can never fold the turn because you probably have enough implied odds to call and draw to a boat (obv. this is not true anymore if you think oversets are in his range). Besides your implied odds, if a flush card comes on the river you may have an opportunity for a bluff if you think you have sufficient fold equity. Now the river. You didn't boat up but the flush card came and he seems to be running all scared with his straight (or unlikely set) and checks. If you check behind you're done and you loose the hand. Is it a good idea to bluff here and if you think it is what would be the best bet size? (I have my take on this but I'll wait until I see a few opinions)
How often does he have to fold vs bet sizes?
1/2 pot 33%
3/4 pot 43%
1/1 pot 50%
shove 68%