200nl I call a 3bet IP with JJ

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10-20-2010, 03:57 AM
JL

200nl I call a 3bet IP with JJ

Villain is an aggressive regular running 24/21, 9% 3bet (8% from SB)
None of my reads really help with this hand.

He probably 3bets me more than 9% because I fold a lot.

I don't know why I didn't 4bet pre. Would everyone agree that it's better to 4bet?

As played, I assume flop is fine. Fold turn?

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
4 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
Hero ($217.70)
BTN ($126.65)
SB ($271.10)
BB ($209.30)

Pre-Flop: ($3, 4 players) Hero is CO :jc: :jd:
Hero raises to $6, 1 fold, SB raises to $21, 1 fold, Hero calls $15

Flop: :kd: :8d: :9d: ($44, 2 players)
SB bets $22, Hero calls $22

Turn: :2c: ($88, 2 players)
SB bets $44, Hero
10-20-2010, 09:11 AM
pocketfours

Preflop meh. I'd 4bet but whatever.

Flop is pretty close I think. Now that we did call it I'm not so sure I want to fold this turn.
10-20-2010, 09:40 AM
griffey24

His post flop sizing seems small given the scariness of this type of board.

I'd probably peel turn and re-eval.

4bet pre for sure. If he's been ramming you he could just think you're fighting back light with a 4bet.
10-20-2010, 03:12 PM
deucesomething

unless we know he likes to stack off light why do we like a 4bet here? Wouldn't we want to flat and keep all his dominated hands/air in as opposed to having him continue with a stronger range that we're not doing so hot against?
10-20-2010, 03:50 PM
griffey24

I'm assuming that someone that is capable of running 24/21 with a 3bet of 9% is also capable of shoving "light", with hands like 88-TT sometimes, since they will be expecting you to play back at them soon.

I would also assume that this type of player would make life difficult for us postflop on a lot of boards Q high+, and can potentially get bluffed off our hand reasonably often.
10-21-2010, 03:08 PM
IowaSkinsFan

I'm not opposed to 4bet or call pre.

Turn is close but I like folding. The rare time he is bluffing here there's no guarantee he's giving up on the river. Turn sizing looks a ton like AdK or AdA
10-21-2010, 08:23 PM
Vi-Zer0Skill

i was surprised at first to see there's merit to folding the turn, but when i think about it i don't see people barreling beyond the flop on this board texture with worse than Td7x. and almost no matter what the river card is if villain bets big we only beat a bluff, and there shouldn't be a lot of bluffs in his range after we call flop+turn
10-23-2010, 07:50 AM
PokerSponsor2-0

I agree with griffey - once again in my humble opinion it was a bad play you call the flop sure or 4 bet either but post flop like griffey said your gonna get pushed around more often than not and the players will exploit this - if the player knows your tight why not just re-raise him all in on the flop and I would bet you £5 he would fold.
10-23-2010, 10:12 AM
griffey24

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerSponsor2-0

I agree with griffey - once again in my humble opinion it was a bad play you call the flop sure or 4 bet either but post flop like griffey said your gonna get pushed around more often than not and the players will exploit this - if the player knows your tight why not just re-raise him all in on the flop and I would bet you £5 he would fold.

I'm definitely not saying re-raise him on THIS particular flop. Call for sure, raising would be a bluff with no better hands actually folding.

I meant more in general, on lots of other boards we'd have a hard time calling pre and getting to showdown vs an aggro.