50NL Trips 150BB

Played 300 hands with Vil.
21/15/3.6AF
also bets in poisiton versus missed CB 9 out of 10
only raised a flop/turn CB 1 out of 6

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($74.90)
Hero (CO) ($77.10)
Button ($76)
SB ($51.05)
BB ($37.05)
UTG ($48.35)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9:heart:, Q:heart:
2 folds, Hero bets $1.75, Button calls $1.75, 1 fold, BB calls $1.25

Flop: ($5.50) 8:spade:, 9:club:, 9:spade: (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, Button calls $4, 1 fold

Turn: ($13.50) A:club: (2 players)
Hero bets $10, Button raises to $25, Hero?

call turn/call non ace rivers. he occasionally has 88/A9, but otherwise you are only losing to K9. he has a ton of draws in his range. he almost certainly bets worse 9x hands on the river

I'd just go ahead and ship it.

Lots of possible draws and he might look you up with an Ace or rare worse nine.

I probably ship it too but def not happy about it.

I would just call and reevaluate river (card, sizing, timing), which means c/f a lot


- board is paired + we are on CO, so we can have every possible full house + he is not attacking cbets + our range seems like FH, trips, top 2 pair and FD (so we are probably not folding to raise)

- with this info I think he has almost always FH, but I would probably still call, because he can be value betting worse 9 and we have more than 3:1 to call

- I don't think he has draws in this situation and I think shoving with this hand (and with these stacks) is big mistake on 50NL

mehhhh, his value range is 9x+, and given the player type, i'd be extremely surprised to see a semi bluff here. You may be getting 3:1 but if you don't fold it's just going to lead you to potentially make a bigger mistake on the river a lot of the time.

i wouldnt ship at all here in turn, I think calling turn and calling river is the best since all his bluffs will carry through on so many rivers. also shipping turn he force him to fold alot.

He is making a mistake if he folds his best combos to a shove and we certainly don't mind that.

cud u please expand that point, my small brain is trying to process.

we dont want him to fold his worse hands (which incls his best combos plus it wud be a mistake to call us right) when we shove turn since we are ahead. do you mean ifs safer to just pick up the dead money and not win the extra $50 behind.

that wouldnt seem right to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Da GOAT

i wouldnt ship at all here in turn, I think calling turn and calling river is the best since all his bluffs will carry through on so many rivers. also shipping turn he force him to fold alot.

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yah I'm +1 with this. We're gonna lose to his draws getting there sometimes, but he'll likely bet all his missed draws on other draw completing cards that don't help him. (ie: missed spades on a club, etc)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Da GOAT

cud u please expand that point, my small brain is trying to process.

we dont want him to fold his worse hands (which incls his best combos plus it wud be a mistake to call us right) when we shove turn since we are ahead. do you mean ifs safer to just pick up the dead money and not win the extra $50 behind.

that wouldnt seem right to me.

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Not a mistake for him to call a shove with 67cc/67ss. However it's much more important to ask ourselves whether he is the type to raise the turn with a draw, or the type to bluff the river with a missed draw.

A lot of tags at these stakes would not bluff the river when missed. Against that type of player flatting here is a big mistake.

On the other hand if this player only raises boats on the turn like this, then shoving is obviously going to be a huge mistake and folding is correct.

Against the tags in the games I currently play, taking into account my image, I think shoving is slightly better. I get raised by draws and slowplayed AK on the turn and they aren't folding to a shove.

Some weak players even raise AQ for info and cheap showdown. They definitely aren't betting the river again.

I only have 5k hands this month at 50nl SH but I would ship turn. Im not fist pump shoving at all, but its not like he is just bluffing you with air, and you are letting his equity get realized for free if you c/c, c/c and he will basically play perfect against you. He will check back when he misses and value town you when he hits whatever it is he has.

Also it is quite rare (so far at least) to see guys 2 barreling in a spot like this.

So either be a pansy and fold or ship it. IMO

*ps..I have a very laggy image if that counts for anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sk8r_daniel

I only have 5k hands this month at 50nl SH but I would ship turn. Im not fist pump shoving at all, but its not like he is just bluffing you with air, and you are letting his equity get realized for free if you c/c, c/c and he will basically play perfect against you. He will check back when he misses and value town you when he hits whatever it is he has.

Also it is quite rare (so far at least) to see guys 2 barreling in a spot like this.

So either be a pansy and fold or ship it. IMO

*ps..I have a very laggy image if that counts for anything.

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You've misread the hand history

I am shipping it in. Big A,worse 9 lots of draws. Unless I knew he was a super nit I dont know how u can fold.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pocketfours

Not a mistake for him to call a shove with 67cc/67ss. However it's much more important to ask ourselves whether he is the type to raise the turn with a draw, or the type to bluff the river with a missed draw.

A lot of tags at these stakes would not bluff the river when missed. Against that type of player flatting here is a big mistake.

On the other hand if this player only raises boats on the turn like this, then shoving is obviously going to be a huge mistake and folding is correct.

Against the tags in the games I currently play, taking into account my image, I think shoving is slightly better. I get raised by draws and slowplayed AK on the turn and they aren't folding to a shove.

Some weak players even raise AQ for info and cheap showdown. They definitely aren't betting the river again.

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u make some very good points, most based on opp types. whether opp will bluff missed draws on river and/or raise draws on turns.thanks for giving some additional input.

bit confused what the best line on this hand now is lol. funny it seems to me the hand could be a fold since most draws and flop made hands would probably raise flop.