pocket 5's, low board facing bet

Firstly, thanks to Duffryn for showing me how to post ipoker hands.

Villain is 15/11 over 120 hands, so pretty tight. Think I was about 24/20.

$0.10/$0.20 No Limit Holdem
iPoker
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG ($5.10)
CO Hero ($23.55)
BTN Villain ($22.91)
SB ($32.99)
BB ($22.54)
Pre-Flop: ($0.30, 5 players) Hero is CO :5s: :5c:
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.70, cynikal calls $0.70, 2 folds
Flop: :4d: :8h: :6d: ($1.70, 2 players)
Hero bets $1.40, cynikal calls $1.40
Turn: :4h: ($4.50, 2 players)
Hero checks, cynikal bets $3.40, Hero?

Fold, I can't really think of a reason to call besides him having 2 overs and a FD, which is a pretty small part of his range, and he'd have position on us on the river

I like to c/r this turn a lot.. just like you would with the nuts.. or check/call and shove the river.

I say fold, if he has a set he has you beat, and will prolly not believe that you have him beat by a check raise, since you would have to have 46, or 48 right here which probably would not raise preflop with.

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

I like to c/r this turn a lot.. just like you would with the nuts.. or check/call and shove the river.

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Reasoning?

well or 66 or 88...

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Originally Posted by bhaley66

well or 66 or 88...

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Villains ranges are often a lot larger than a set, sounds like you have a case of monsters under the bed

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Originally Posted by Imthenewfish

Villains ranges are often a lot larger than a set, sounds like you have a case of monsters under the bed

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I presume you mean a high pp by monsters? Is it often that people just call 10.5bb out to the turn before betting anything with a flop like this and that in their hand? If you could put them on a high pp, I think that this would be a good place to c/r, however I would see it hard from this info to put them on a big pp...

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Originally Posted by Imthenewfish

Reasoning?

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How many hands in his range continue to aggression? It puts him in a hellava spot, unless he has a boat, a tiny part of his range. What would you do here if you were in his shoes?

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

How many hands in his range continue to aggression? It puts him in a hellava spot, unless he has a boat, a tiny part of his range. What would you do here if you were in his shoes?

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I play tighter against aggression than most micro stakes bonks, but I don't expect them to fold a lot of pairs here, and I don't think he's floating with a lot of AJ shit

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Originally Posted by bhaley66

I presume you mean a high pp by monsters? Is it often that people just call 10.5bb out to the turn before betting anything with a flop like this and that in their hand? If you could put them on a high pp, I think that this would be a good place to c/r, however I would see it hard from this info to put them on a big pp...

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in my post it specifically said sets..

ok, i think the way you worded it was confusing...

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

How many hands in his range continue to aggression? It puts him in a hellava spot, unless he has a boat, a tiny part of his range. What would you do here if you were in his shoes?

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i think tt+ calls you down pretty much all day when you are shoving especially when they think it is a 24/20 shoving on them

yeah i think c/folding is in order. it's unlikely a nit has floated much pure air here, you're beat by all of 44+ which is 38 combos and feel is in his turn range. i dont think there would be enough combos between floated air and flush draw combos that bet the turn to make it anything but a C/F, unless you have a read that he gives up all bricked draws on river, in which case you could maybe c/c turn and c/f river

You guys are assuming villain is a nit based on 120 hands at 15/11? Remember just because he has nitty preflop stats over a small sample size does not mean he plays nitty postflop.

Anyone want to throw out a range for villain to flat preflop and float the flop? How much of that range stands up to a c/r on the turn? Which of those hands continue to the c/r and call a river shove? Will that play work often enough to make it profitable based on villain's range?

I am not saying we want to make plays like this every chance we get.. but getting out of line can occasionally be worth our while.

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

You guys are assuming villain is a nit based on 120 hands at 15/11? Remember just because he has nitty preflop stats over a small sample size does not mean he plays nitty postflop.

Anyone want to throw out a range for villain to flat preflop and float the flop? How much of that range stands up to a c/r on the turn? Which of those hands continue to the c/r and call a river shove? Will that play work often enough to make it profitable based on villain's range?

I am not saying we want to make plays like this every chance we get.. but getting out of line can occasionally be worth our while.

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I find that villains at microstakes can't find the fold button as often as they should, so I don't try to make elaborate bluffs (You want us to get him to fold an overpair, right?).

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

You guys are assuming villain is a nit based on 120 hands at 15/11? Remember just because he has nitty preflop stats over a small sample size does not mean he plays nitty postflop.

Anyone want to throw out a range for villain to flat preflop and float the flop? How much of that range stands up to a c/r on the turn? Which of those hands continue to the c/r and call a river shove? Will that play work often enough to make it profitable based on villain's range?

I am not saying we want to make plays like this every chance we get.. but getting out of line can occasionally be worth our while.

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I think if he calls your check raise on the turn he is probably not folding the river too often.

Just c/f the turn. This is a very needless and spewy spot to c/r the turn as a bluff then shove river vs a seemingly tight villain who likely just doesn't have a very weak range for floating the flop.

If he calls turn it's probably pretty awful to shove the river since I'd never expect him to fold overpairs anywhere near often enough and possibly not even top pair. Any hand you get to fold the river that's beating us like 6x or w/e will be folding the turn.

Can I just ask what is the convention when deciding whether to post results of a hand or not - should I post the result here?

No real point posting results unless there's another street of action to discuss, but if you feel there's been enough input in the hand and feel like posting them now then fair enough.

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Originally Posted by parislad

Can I just ask what is the convention when deciding whether to post results of a hand or not - should I post the result here?

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Hopefully the only result is you c/folding turn.

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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Hopefully the only result is you c/folding turn.

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Well if you know why to c/f the turn you wouldn't be posting this hand, would you?

If you are c/fing the turn here every time then you are better of c/fing the flop

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

If you are c/fing the turn here every time then you are better of c/fing the flop

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Possibly. But I don't really see the point in check/raising a hand here on the turn when (1) Villain's range is likely somewhat strong (probably doesn't just pure float the flop often), (2) Villain could easily take a free card on the turn with his draws and weak made hands, so a turn bet from him could be a strong range (overpair+), (3) We don't know if villain can fold an overpair+ to a check/raise [most players are going to make mistakes of calling too much, rather than folding, and (4) 55 has pretty poor equity when called.

I just don't see a reason to turn this hand into a bluff on the turn, against a villain that probably makes more bad calls than folds (typical). And why chose to do it with 55, when we could do it with a hand with more equity (Td9d, AdQd, etc).

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

If you are c/fing the turn here every time then you are better of c/fing the flop

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His range is a lot stronger and smaller on the turn, so, yes c/f or c/c is good on the flop as long as you know why you're doing it.