flopped trips - raise for value?

Hand I was in today ...limped with Kh8h in position. Table was pretty passive preflop so I wasn't worried about limping and I hadn't limped alot of hands.

flop come QKK -2 clubs

first guy leads out for 20 (solid player, not playing a ton of hands, aggressive when he's got a hand)
second guy calls 20 (a buddy of mine, def likes to call his draws, doesn't really know pots odds vs hand odds)

I decide to raise to 60, basically I didn't want my buddy to draw out on me for free.

Am I getting enough calls from Q's, and draws here to raise the flop like that?
of am I mostly getting called by better kings?

result - first guy calls, second folds,
turn = 8
I bet like 60 (roughly half my remaining stack), he thinks for a bit and calls, then he calls off the rest of my chips on the river.

He had K9

My plan was to check call, after he called my flop bet, and after he called my turn bet I figured I prob out drew him.

I see now if my buddy was on a FD I gave him pretty good odds to call.:(

Erm..Stakes? Positions? wtf?

Sounds like around $1/$2 $200 effective.

I think I call the $20 out of principal.

The problem is a raise will blow away weaker hands like Qx and commits so much of your stack that you hate to fold here ever. Yeah, it sucks to be drawn out on, but you should have a pretty good idea when the guy drawing hits. The bigger concern here is if you think you're good. I like a flat on the flop and gather information for a commitment decision on the turn.

On my A++++++ game against a guy I've played a few hours with I maybe find a fold on the flop.

89,100 games 0.001 secs 89,100,000 games/sec

Board: Ks Kh Qc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.253% 19.95% 25.30% 17775 22545.00 { K8s }
Hand 1: 54.747% 29.44% 25.30% 26235 22545.00 { K2s+, AKo, K2o+ }

The chances of him folding a weaker Kx offsuit or having KK/QQ here offset some. So I think you're around even money on the flop.

ya sry it was 1-2, and I was in late pos.

so it better to just let him do the better with his Qx, or fd's, pocket pairs etc

Poker sometimes comes down to a guessing game. I like to find ways to narrow his range before putting a bunch of money in here and keep his weaker hands putting money into the pot.

A guy who is "aggressive when he's got a hand" donks out an overbet? Sounds like he's got a hand...I also like a flat. Also, for future hands, your flop raise was just tiny, and no draw should ever fold to it.

I'd fold JT to his raise...

Well, I should have said no draw "would" fold to it. My short experience at 1/2 hasn't suggested the average live player, and even the "solid" ones, are folding many draws getting nearly 3-1.

IMO, this hand and flop will stack you more often that it will help you stack off someone else. If you get action, you are either up against a similar or better hand and with that kicker, you should have a gut feeling that you are looking at a losing hand. This pot should be kept small if possible unless you hit an 8 on the turn or river or the board pairs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fnord

Poker sometimes comes down to a guessing game. I like to find ways to narrow his range before putting a bunch of money in here and keep his weaker hands putting money into the pot.

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Raising for value with weak trips against a bet-flat is not the first thing that comes to mind. You have trips, but you also have a stack in front of you and 2 ppl out of position willing to throw chips in.. agree with the mod on pursuing pot control until you have more info on opponent holdings.

This seems like one of those 2nd best hand situations hands where you lose a stack.. Approach with caution and respect out of position bets/raises.

Juicy EV is found in more clear cut hands than this, like trips with A high HU against flush draws and high pairs.. just doesn't seem like a situation that lends itself to high long term profitability..

It's a classic example of being either miles ahead or miles behind.
Your kicker urgh.
Pot controlling here I think is the only way to proceed on all streets.

i think you got some biased answers based on the results you revealed. also, i'm not sure all of the responses took into account that this was a live, loose-passive game.

re your original question, "Am I getting enough calls from Q's, and draws here to raise the flop like that?", my answer is an emphatic YES, given that this was a live game.

i liked everything you did except the river push; i probably would have checked through... although i can't say for sure since i know the result. next time don't post results.

ChezJ

Im good with raise or call (favor raise 70-30 depending on reads on villians) If you get repopped on flop from original raiser to 180 or more, what do you do?