5 hands about C betting.

I just played a bunch of hands and i really focused only betting when I thought they would call with worse or fold better. In 3k hands I ended up with a 35% c bet which means im missing something.

Hand #1

CO: 17/8 1.1k hands
SB: 13/4 70 hands
BB: 11/10 2.2k (aggressive player)

I see no point in betting this flop. Anything the calls me has me beat. I might however fold out 22 and 33, but I don't think this is worth anything in this muliti way pot. so i Check.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($25.20)
UTG+1 ($33.75)
Hero (MP1) ($33.95)
MP2 ($10.75)
MP3 ($25)
CO ($36.90)
Button ($19.85)
SB ($24.20)
BB ($21.45)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A:heart:, Q:heart:
2 folds, Hero bets $1, 2 folds, CO calls $1, 1 fold, SB calls $0.90, BB calls $0.75

Flop: ($4) 8:diamond:, 4:heart:, 4:spade: (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, CO checks

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Hand #2
BB: 6/3 over 200 hands. Obv he doesn't call with anything worse. Further he is the definition of NIT, he doesn't even have that many small pockets that he could fold.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($54.50)
MP1 ($25)
MP2 ($59.65)
CO ($26.05)
Button ($24.40)
Hero (SB) ($25.10)
BB ($25)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3:club:, 3:diamond:
5 folds, Hero bets $1, BB calls $0.75

Flop: ($2) 4:club:, Q:heart:, Q:spade: (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks

=========
Hand #3

Villain is 8/0 over 51 hands.

In this case he will likely drop 22-55 continue with 77,99,tt,jj, maybe. he shouldn't have to many AXs hands in his range might have some big overs like AJ-AQ, which not only have me beat but dominate me. Thus the check.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($32.45)
BB ($26.25)
UTG ($26.30)
UTG+1 ($27.50)
MP1 ($25.70)
Hero (MP2) ($25)
MP3 ($22.95)
CO ($15)
Button ($27)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q:club:, K:diamond:
3 folds, Hero bets $1, MP3 calls $1, 4 folds

Flop: ($2.35) 6:heart:, 6:spade:, 8:heart: (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks
=======
Hand #4

Normally i don't raise 66 EP. Again, this villain has a bunch of pockets in his range. he drops most if not all of the ones I beat he sticks around with Some big braodway cards, but i need to be able to make it show down and there really isn't a card im happy to see.


Villain is 11/8 over 216 hands

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($30.55)
MP1 ($29.90)
MP2 ($25)
MP3 ($25.75)
CO ($25.40)
Button ($24.30)
SB ($35.10)
BB ($30)
Hero (UTG) ($25.65)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6:diamond:, 6:spade:
Hero bets $1, 2 folds, MP2 calls $1, 5 folds

Flop: ($2.35) 9:heart:, 4:club:, 7:diamond: (2 players)
Hero checks,

============
Hand #5
Button: is 12/4 over 57 hands with 11 % ATS
BB: is 11/11 over 157 hands.

Button's range is pretty tight, but he continues with all of his range except 33s, though likely his actual range is 88+AQs+

BB range is wider and i would consider betting against him if i was heads up and in position since he would call with a bunch of flush draws. but even against him. im behind 89s or even ATs

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 ($26)
CO ($33.80)
Button ($25)
SB ($25.30)
BB ($25.70)
UTG ($28.30)
UTG+1 ($29.05)
Hero (MP1) ($70.05)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 2:spade:, 2:club:
2 folds, Hero bets $1, 2 folds, Button calls $1, 1 fold, BB calls $0.75

Flop: ($3.10) 4:club:, 7:spade:, 6:club: (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Hand 1:

Remember that the purpose of a bet if not just for value is to fold out hands with equity against yours, not just hands that are actually ahead. With two cards to come you probably have less than 50% equity in the hand even if no one else has a pair (you can play around with possible hands for them in pokerstove). That said I seldom cbet 4 way and even on this board I'm not sure you get enough folds to make it better than checking, particularly when you have a fair amount of showdown value. If you're comfortable with compounding probabilities then it's pretty easy to work out whether the bet is good here though, since nobody's going to be calling you without a pair. (Just ask/pm me if you need help doing this.)

Hand 2:

I would question whether even such a nit as this folds any pocket pairs preflop in this spot. But yeah, irrespective of this it does seem like an obvious spot to check down, certainly if he's seldom going to bluff you off the best hand.

Hand 3: I think the more important factor here is that the board hasn't hit you very much, so many opponents (both decent and bad) are likely to try and make some kind of a play here sometimes. If I choose to cbet in this spot (which I would pretty often) then I will generally bet quite small (half pot or so) and be prepared to fire two barrels a lot of the time. Unless you know your opponent is very passive I wouldn't expect him to let you showdown K high and win very often without calling at least one bet (which I'm guessing you don't want to do).

Hand 4: I don't like a cbet here at all. The big differences between this hand and hand 3 are:
1. You have showdown value against his C range hands. So when he decides to check down hands that he thinks have showdown value, such as A high and weak pairs you will sometimes win.
2. You have virtually no equity against his stronger range, since you only have 2 outs to improve instead of 6 in the case of the KQ hand.

Hand 5: Yeah I check this also.

Rather than thinking just about whether your opponent is calling with worse or folding out better, you need to also think about how much equity you are folding out. This equity can be in the form of opponents with better hands, live outs and also hands that will bluff successfully if checked to, but will fold if you bet. Remember that against many opponents your hand only has showdown value if it beats hands in his C-range (unless you're willing to call a bet) since his D-range will usually bet at some stage. (See the the 66 and KQ hands.)

Another way of thinking about this is whether a cbet makes your opponent's range more or less balanced. A cbet can easily be justified even with a hand that only gets called by better/folds out worse if your opponent never floats, but will bet a balanced range if checked to, such that you have no effective value against him. If your opponent does float a correct proportion of the time then you lose the value in this cbet since he can still have a balanced range on the turn (so you can try double barrelling or checking flop more).

I think I had more to say on this but am knackered now, so may write more another day

Quote:

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Originally Posted by knaplek

Rather than thinking just about whether your opponent is calling with worse or folding out better, you need to also think about how much equity you are folding out. This equity can be in the form of opponents with better hands, live outs and also hands that will bluff successfully if checked to, but will fold if you bet. Remember that against many opponents your hand only has showdown value if it beats hands in his C-range (unless you're willing to call a bet) since his D-range will usually bet at some stage. (See the the 66 and KQ hands.)

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This is why we blocking bet B range type hands on a scare card right? Because we aren't getting calls from worse or folds from better, necessarily, but because we are preventing ourselves from getting bluffed off the best hand, and making a mistake ourselves? I suppose in a sense we are give them free fold equity from our range, increasing their overall equity against us, if we show weakness when a scare card hits.

Grunching.

Hand 1, you can make an argument for betting, as well as one for checking. I only cbet 4 handed flops with some kind of hand, with few exceptions, and low paired, dry, uncoordinated flops is one those exceptions. You've got a back door nfd, and 6 over cards to most of what would call you. A8 could be out there, and will definitely at least call, but you're not exactly dead to it. I'd be suprised to see Q8, and I think mainly what you get called by here is pocket pairs, and 8s. I bet here, touch more than half pot.

The other hands are auto bets.

Poker is about getting worse hands to put more money in, and better hands to fold. Sometimes you flop a hand, and realise that if you bet, you're making loads of worse hands fold, so you let one peal to let your opponent catch a hand that while still worse than your hand, is good enough for them to call. Other times, the only prospect for them put any more money in the pot is for them to outdraw you, and in this circumstance there is no expectation in seeing any more cards, and you need to fold out those worse hands.

It's a dilemma I've been struggling with, "If I'm betting with the best hand to make them fold, what does it matter I've got the best hand, why don't I bet in this spot without a hand?", but at the moment I think it's still the best play, until I become a more advanced player. I've been meaning to post about it actually, and I might do so now this has come up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by !Luck

I just played a bunch of hands and i really focused only betting when I thought they would call with worse or fold better. In 3k hands I ended up with a 35% c bet which means im missing something

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First of all I struggled and was at like 50% which is too small at my games and I am continuing to improve. I haven't read responses but remember that there are 2 more streets left to play. Don't just be focused on one street at a time, set yourself up for later streets. I just looked at hand 1 and you beat out PPs and you steal other hands' equity. Not to mention a bunch of bad hands call leading to a much more profitable...double barrel. Having 6 outs to improve helps a lot too.