Some fun ones, some spew, well ok, a lot of spew

We have been playing quite a bit, a fair amnt hu the past few days, maybe 5.5k hands total. I'm opening every button, he is 3betting 16% or so. He's opening 77% of btns, I'm 3betting 18% or so. He has 4bet/called 66 previously, is capable of 4bet bluffing etc etc. I actually think he is quite good to be honest. He prob does not have the same amnt of hu experience I do though.

***** Hand History for Game 38721591189 ***** (Poker Stars)
$2000.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, January 25, 04:48:35 ET 2010
Table Syringa V (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: Sauce123 ( $5433.65 USD )
Seat 4: SmittyUF ( $5286.80 USD )
Sauce123 posts small blind [$10.00 USD].
SmittyUF posts big blind [$20.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Sauce123 [ Ac 2s ]
Sauce123 raises [$30.00 USD]
SmittyUF raises [$140.00 USD]
Sauce123 raises [$440.00 USD]
SmittyUF raises [$1040.00 USD]
Sauce123 raises [$1440.00 USD]
SmittyUF calls [$720.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3s, 5h, 7s ]
SmittyUF checks
Sauce123 bets [$3513.65 USD]

I'm playing quite loose 6max, and 3betting very loose-aggro from the blinds, probably 12% in this spot or at least I will be perceived to be. Kings is very in line postflop, generally very good all around but on the tighter side. Human is new to the games in my experience, reasonably in line opening pots, but very very aggro in large pots both with vbets and bluffs.


Seat 1: kingsofcards ( $4051.00 USD )
Seat 2: Sir_DonaldRM ( $1117.00 USD )
Seat 3: MuckeDBoY ( $2080.00 USD )
Seat 4: 0Human0 ( $3827.00 USD )
Seat 5: Sauce123 ( $7112.25 USD )
Seat 6: DerekJC9954 ( $3330.00 USD )
0Human0 posts small blind [$10.00 USD].
Sauce123 posts big blind [$20.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Sauce123 [ Kc Qc ]
DerekJC9954 folds
kingsofcards raises [$60.00 USD]
Sir_DonaldRM folds
MuckeDBoY folds
0Human0 calls [$50.00 USD]
Sauce123 raises [$258.00 USD]
kingsofcards calls [$218.00 USD]
0Human0 calls [$218.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qd, 5d, Qh ]
0Human0 checks
Sauce123 bets [$280.00 USD]
kingsofcards raises [$640.00 USD]
0Human0 raises [$1125.00 USD]

Same general reads as before on Smitty. I think he will cbet the flop with overcards reasonably often in this spot even though it is poor for his range. Will almost always cbet the nuts as opposed to CR.

Seat 1: Sauce123 ( $8063.45 USD )
Seat 4: SmittyUF ( $2659.00 USD )
Sauce123 posts small blind [$10.00 USD].
SmittyUF posts big blind [$20.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Sauce123 [ Jh Kc ]
Sauce123 raises [$30.00 USD]
SmittyUF raises [$140.00 USD]
Sauce123 calls [$120.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6c, 5s, 7c ]
SmittyUF bets [$200.00 USD]
Sauce123 calls [$200.00 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5c ]
SmittyUF checks
Sauce123 bets [$480.00 USD]
SmittyUF calls [$480.00 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 7d ]
SmittyUF checks
Sauce123 bets [$7223.45 USD]

River here is 1800 into 1400 or so ... has to work ~56% to be Break-Even.

1) I haven't played with him hu much but from what I know of his 6 max game this seems like mega spew. I don't have a feel for your recent gameflow though fwiw

2) I don't really have anything to offer. Ohuman has played generally really solid in my experience with him. Super sick spot though.

3) This seems ok to me as long as he doesn't feel like you've been running him over recently. I think that would be the only way he could have a big hand here.

Hand 1: I like 4betting light deep in general but versus a guy who is 3betting 16% (thats pretty tight to me) and calling 4bets light I think I'm going pure value range. I think your 6bet is a total spew. Flop I think you pretty much have to play it that way with the draw you have with smitty prob calling all his bluffs to your 6bet.

Hand 2: I think this is a very easy fold.

Hand 3: I think your flop call is a spew but the rest seems fine. I think I'd go like 1100 on river just so we're more credibly repping a wider value range.

1- putting in 1/3 of eff stacks and then folding an ace seems bad if you are both playing really aggro. i am surprised he flatted, w/e on your flop shove

3- seems good, 1100 seems bad id either jam or bet 875

Hand 1: I don't see any better play given PF action.
Hand 2 is disgusting I prbly puke then time out.

First off im kind of surprised at your impression of smitty. I've played more than 10k hands with him and he's definitely solid but he's very nitty. He is capable of big bluffs every once in a while though.

Hand 1) I dont really understand the preflop action. Why did you think he was bluffing? I think it's extremely rare once he puts in the 5bet. However, this is basically a dream flop for you so its a trivial shove. Smitty is definitely the type who could lay down KK here too (it really seems like he has it doesnt it?)

Hand 2) See i think that there's some chance they're both bluffing but if you shove it looks like you have AQ or 55 and they both definitely wont call worse. I guess you could call and give up if a K doesnt come.

Hand 3) Love it.

1) I would bet small and call a shove instead, but I would have to do that because I would never ever shove here for value. I'm also expecting to be ahead a fair amount if he shoves.

2) Sick. Go with intuition. I don't think HJ would ever raise a boat here with position, and SB probably knows that so he might raise with the NFD expecting to be perceived as very strong and almost never drawing dead.

3) This looks absolutely fucking horrible against anyone half decent. The fact that everyone seems to like it makes me really sad.

P4s do you think on hand 3 he's strong or that he'll think you're bluffing

I'm pretty torn on hand 3. I just feel like it's one of those spots where ppl convince themselves you're repping 7's full or air, and convince themselves to call light.

For those of you jamming this river, what's our value range here?

I feel like your calling the flop on hand 3 just to get barrelled off it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Numbr2intheWorld

P4s do you think on hand 3 he's strong or that he'll think you're bluffing

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Jesus christ both.

I dont think 3 is that bad.. he's def pretty strong, but then again he should assume we're able to value shove 5x, 7x, and flushes. Which is a big enough range.

p4s- it is almost impossible that hand 3 is very bad when i stipulated smitty cbets a bit too much, 3bets 16% and the top of his preflop range is forced to fold the end on this board + action most of the time.

the first two hands can easily be very bad if the villain's range (s) contain no bluffs or very very few bluffs relative to strong hands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sauce123

p4s- it is almost impossible that hand 3 is very bad when i stipulated smitty cbets a bit too much, 3bets 16% and the top of his preflop range is forced to fold the end on this board + action most of the time.

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Cmon it's a trap, take the free card. Assume that he can factor in his 3bet and cbet tendencies and then consider how he thinks you will perceive his range on every street. Think about how he perceives your flop calling range. You should see that he isn't planning to c/f a blank river. He also doesn't think you would bet the turn with a seven.

sigh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sauce123

sigh

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Sorry, I just think it looks like a very standard stack-a-float and I don't think he plays the top of his preflop range like this very often at all, especially taking into account his tendencies.

I'm happy to change my opinion about this hand if someone cares to explain what it is I'm missing.

your missing the fact that you have never played with him before and so cannot possibly know that the hand is 'a very standard stack-a-float'... and you certainly have not played him as me.

when you give opinions on hands, you need to trust the reads given to you, you can't just make things up to suit your taste.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sauce123

your missing the fact that you have never played with him before and so cannot possibly know that the hand is 'a very standard stack-a-float'... and you certainly have not played him as me.

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I know and I trust that you played it well if you say you did. Was curious to why everyone else likes it so much, which still makes little sense to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sauce123

when you give opinions on hands, you need to trust the reads given to you, you can't just make things up to suit your taste.

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My honest opinion was that his tendencies (high 3bet and high cbet) should work against you for two reasons:

1. They increase the amount of floats in your range.
2. They should increase his willingness to barrel all his overpairs.

I also think he should be betting the turn with his overpairs because if you have a seven or a small overpair, which are a big part of your range, he should assume that you will call a turn bet but not bet yourself when checked to. He should also not give your draws a free card.

With this in mind I would think that his turn check polarizes most of his range to complete garbage that he will c/f and nutted hands that he will c/c trap with hoping you will do the betting for him. If you check behind for pot control, he can instead c/r the river and maximize value against your thin value and bluff range.

With these reads I could easily exploit his play by taking the free card and not betting for thin value on the river. With my floats that are completely without showdown value I could make a very easy tiny b/f bluff on the river hoping he folds his unpaired hands.

I have never to this day been in a situation where I could assume that my opponent is giving me credit for thinking like this, and they can't fold their straights or flushes on the river even though they will be behind every single time when I shove this river.

It seems here that your assesment of his range contains a lot of overpairs, in which case I think this play is fine. The reason I don't like it is because I disagree, but as you said you said yourself, I probably don't have a clue about how you guys play.

nice thread

Sauce do you really consider 16% a high 3bet%? Because in my opinion anything thats not over 25% is not "high" for HU. Maybe people have began to learned to 3bet less but when I played cash regularly even the nitty regs 3bet about 20-22% of the time. In the past when I saw a 3bet% of 16% I felt like it was so under optimal I would play very tight to them.

I don't think he was suggesting 16% 3 bet was high.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ilikeaces86

I don't think he was suggesting 16% 3 bet was high.

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Yeah, seems that I misinterpreted that. Certainly it's still a high oop 3bet though, no matter how standard it is, and it doesn't change my opinion on whether he should be betting the turn with his overpairs pretty much always, especially if he cbets a lot.

when i read these threads i feel like im on a parallel friggin universe

WHAT IS THERE TO MISINTERPRET??

i wrote: 'he is 3betting 16%'.

how can you interpret this as: he is 3betting 16% and sauce thinks that thats a high amount of 3bets !

i mean normally i would just think isf did not read the op and just looked at the hand or something, but then directly after his post Mr. P4s chimes in and says 'Yeah, seems that I misinterpreted that' too. dsfklhdsklhgsdlkf