Night hand III..

$0.50/$1 Limit Holdem
10 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

READ: tables were running loose and seemed to be paying off tonight...strictly called because of all the limpers in already and table stats.

too loose preflop (very borderline, imo)? ok postflop?

Stacks:
UTG ($29.20)
UTG+1 ($31.30)
UTG+2 ($30.55)
MP1 ($21.35)
MP2 ($10.90)
MP3 ($82.30)
CO ($2.70)
BTN ($19.25)
Hero ($16.20)
BB ($30)

Pre-Flop: (1.5 SB, 10 players) Hero is SB :tc: :8c:
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls

Flop: :2d: :7h: :9h: (11.0 SB, 5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 3-bets, MP3 calls, CO 4-bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls

Turn: :6c: (14.0 BB, 5 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, 1 fold, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls

River: :qc: (20.0 BB, 4 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls

Final Pot: 22.0 BB
CO shows
:kd: :as:
Hero shows a straight, Six to Ten
:tc: :8c:
UTG+2 shows
:2s: :2h:

Hero wins 21.5 BB (net +15.8 BB)

MP3 lost 2.7 BB
CO lost 2.7 BB
UTG+1 lost 4.7 BB
UTG+2 lost 5.7 BB

i wonder what the hell CO 4bet the flop with, but folded to a single bet on the turn?

What would I do that with? A9/K9 probably and then think about someone else in that ridiculous hand having a higher pair or trips. TPTK on the flop is fine but once not improved on the turn I'd probably let it go too.

And you had pot odds all day long to call all those bets. NH IMO.

you would raise A9/K9 pre and them cap a flop with 5 players in there?

If it was suited I've seen people do it. Hit a miracle flop and get paid off with nut flush. Every street you just invest a bit more and once the pot is $4 and you only have to invest another .25 you should theoretically be calling with just about anything.

Yeah, my guess is Ad7d or Ad9d.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ponyboy

If it was suited I've seen people do it. Hit a miracle flop and get paid off with nut flush. Every street you just invest a bit more and once the pot is $4 and you only have to invest another .25 you should theoretically be calling with just about anything.

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i see players do this, too, and i think its a HUGE leak. i used to do it alot to "justify the chase." i figured TPTK is strong, vulnerable or not, and i would jam to charge draws. i figured that while i was likely ahead, i was also tying myself to the hand so i couldnt fold if the board gets ugly. i would do the same with draws. if i liked my draw, i would donk a turn when i expected a raise...telling myself i was building a pot and calling raises "with odds."

i stopped doing that crap, and my winrate went up. hmmm.

the 9 is just too vulnerable in a raised pot to be capping a 5way with. if i flop that 9, i am putting myself on 5 outs....period.

if that was villain's thinking, i want him at my tables all the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chopper

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ponyboy

If it was suited I've seen people do it. Hit a miracle flop and get paid off with nut flush. Every street you just invest a bit more and once the pot is $4 and you only have to invest another .25 you should theoretically be calling with just about anything.

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i see players do this, too, and i think its a HUGE leak. i used to do it alot to "justify the chase." i figured TPTK is strong, vulnerable or not, and i would jam to charge draws. i figured that while i was likely ahead, i was also tying myself to the hand so i couldnt fold if the board gets ugly. i would do the same with draws. if i liked my draw, i would donk a turn when i expected a raise...telling myself i was building a pot and calling raises "with odds."

i stopped doing that crap, and my winrate went up. hmmm.

the 9 is just too vulnerable in a raised pot to be capping a 5way with. if i flop that 9, i am putting myself on 5 outs....period.

if that was villain's thinking, i want him at my tables all the time.

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I suspect the villain's thinking was more like "I figure I am beat, but at this point I might as well see one more card and see if I pick up the nut flush draw or otherwise improve on the turn". I know, not a very rigorous calculation of implied odds. :D But players think like that.

To be slightly more rigorous about this, a lot of players have a psychological block to bet-folding. This is actually an even bigger leak in no limit, where the raise is so much more costly. But bet-folding goes against human instincts to get some value for our money, in this case, another card or a showdown. So the tendency is-- WHETHER OR NOT ONE HAS THE CORRECT IMPLIED ODDS-- to pay the increased cost to see the next card and fold then rather than to either fold or make correct calls based on implied odds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chopper

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ponyboy

If it was suited I've seen people do it. Hit a miracle flop and get paid off with nut flush. Every street you just invest a bit more and once the pot is $4 and you only have to invest another .25 you should theoretically be calling with just about anything.

---

i see players do this, too, and i think its a HUGE leak. i used to do it alot to "justify the chase." i figured TPTK is strong, vulnerable or not, and i would jam to charge draws. i figured that while i was likely ahead, i was also tying myself to the hand so i couldnt fold if the board gets ugly. i would do the same with draws. if i liked my draw, i would donk a turn when i expected a raise...telling myself i was building a pot and calling raises "with odds."

i stopped doing that crap, and my winrate went up. hmmm.

the 9 is just too vulnerable in a raised pot to be capping a 5way with. if i flop that 9, i am putting myself on 5 outs....period.

if that was villain's thinking, i want him at my tables all the time.

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I agree...if I'm going to get in with suited crap like that I treat it like a low pocket pair - get in cheap and get out cheap. Justifying the chase in LHE is so easy when you only have to call say .50 to see another card if you have 7 outs when the pot is $5.

Another one of my major leaks is that I would rather raise a single flop bet even if I only hit TPMK to see if the others are serious about continuing because they feel they have the best hand. It's my "paying to see how confident they are" leak.

dont get that confused with protecting your hand.

you hold 88 in a limped pot from MP. flop comes 4 ways and looks like 4h7dQd. aggro blind bets out, you??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chopper

dont get that confused with protecting your hand.

you hold 88 in a limped pot from MP. flop comes 4 ways and looks like 4h7dQd. aggro blind bets out, you??

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If it's an aggro blind, I raise - expecting a call from someone holding x7. If it is the nit who is running 12/8 I would likely fold.

agreed. just point out that raising in spots like these is to protect, for value, and the correct thing to do a lot of times. it isnt just to see how much villain likes his hand. if your main reason is to see how much villain likes his hand, its the wrong reason. there should be other reasons behind why you raise.