I'm back and still suck at poker. YAY ME!

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10-05-2009, 05:17 PM
connectthesuitors

I'm back and still suck at poker. YAY ME!

Ok here's an 'interesting' hand to mark my, hopefully permanent, return to the forum! I'm not using any software so no stats but villain had been inactive to say the least in his brief time at the table. So the 3 bet OOP suggested to me a very strong range and i know sc's are perfect to combat a range like this but is this still a bad call pre? What about the other streets? I figured I had 13 outs on the flop against a range of AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK,AQs,TT but I'm starting to think it was just wishful thinking and he could show up with 88 or 99 here but his PSBs suggested he really just wanted me to go away and therfore I included all possible outs for me to make the best hand.

A big part of me now thinks that this is just a horrible, horrible hand though and a major leak. I think I even didn't notice possible club draw with AcKc or AcQc haha what a donkfish. So, berating time? lol

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

http://www.flopturnriver.com/poker-t...res/862604.gif

MP ($10)
Hero (Button) ($20.05)
SB ($9.60)
BB ($18.35)
UTG ($10.30)

http://www.flopturnriver.com/poker-t...res/862604.gif

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
2 folds, Hero bets $0.40, 1 fold, BB raises to $1.20, Hero calls $0.80

Flop: ($2.45) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets $2.30, Hero calls $2.30

Turn: ($7.05) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets $7, Hero calls $7

River: ($21.05) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets $7.85 (All-In), Hero calls $7.85

Total pot: $36.75 | Rake: $1.75

Results below:
Hero had 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (straight, eight high).
BB had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: Hero won $35
10-05-2009, 05:39 PM
Carroters

Fold preflop. This is BU vs blinds so his 3-betting range isn't neccessarily nutted up. Stuff like AK AQ is probably in there and taking up a lot of the value combinations in his range so much of the time when you do flop a monster, you wont get as much action as you're hoping for.

I flop is fine since we likely only have FE against AK AQ etc which we beat anyway.

On the turn we can reasonably assume we have 13 outs and can expect to win the last $8 a huge amount of the time on the river should we hit a 3, 4, 5, or 8.

I'd defo just muck preflop though. Calling would be a bit better had we opened utg or something where his range is even tighter.
10-05-2009, 05:56 PM
Micro2Macro

no no no, SC's aren't great to continue here, especially when you hold one of the worst ones - fold pre.
10-05-2009, 08:26 PM
Donkafelts

We're deep enough to call pre IMO if villian's range is super tight. As you don't have a large history its an easy fold, but if he were 3 betting like 1% over 200 hands then i might call here. Defenately btter with a pp or better sc tho.
10-05-2009, 08:36 PM
clvacva

what where you gonna do if the river bricked for you? So much money in that pot
:twisted:
10-06-2009, 07:49 AM
connectthesuitors

Quote:

Originally Posted by clvacva

what where you gonna do if the river bricked for you? So much money in that pot
:twisted:

Easy fold.... hahahaha thank god it didn't though
10-06-2009, 10:29 AM
kb coolman

Yes, you definitely suck at poker. You called a hard 3b pre with a shit hand, then two street pot bets with mid pair and an open ender.

Fold pre
Fold flop
Fold turn

Luckboxing the river doesn't change anything here.
10-06-2009, 10:42 AM
Carroters

Please don't fold flop. We easily have odds to peel here given that we can stack AA KK QQ JJ and are ahead of AK AQ already.
10-06-2009, 10:45 AM
Micro2Macro

Just notices stack sizes....I still fold pre but its close maybe? I don't know, you need reads on how he plays post before you can start flatting low SC's imo. If you're just playing hit to win with them then you're doing it wrong.
10-06-2009, 10:59 AM
kb coolman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

Please don't fold flop. We easily have odds to peel here given that we can stack AA KK QQ JJ and are ahead of AK AQ already.

Ok, I can justify a peel here with about 43% equity in the hand against JJ+, and we're a favorite if we widen his range to AK.

But we have to let this turn go. We can easily drop AK from his range, and we're only 30% against JJ+
10-06-2009, 12:05 PM
JKDS

i hate pre. if we know his range is tight like QQ+ or so, then we also know we'll be facing multiple bets. Thats great news if we hit the flop, but the flops we have to continue on mostly suck. For instance, the most likely flops are straight/flush draw types, and we will find ourselves having to fold turns cuz villain is just gonna keep blasting away. We're 2% to hit a two pair that doesnt pair the board, so we're not really getting odds for that and we get counterfeited enough for us to want much better odds than the exact amount we need.

@sc's against tight ranges:

they do fair the best against high pocket pairs, but thats still only 22% or so
10-06-2009, 12:05 PM
Carroters

Ohh yeah I didn't see stack sizes either, M2M and I are huge fish obv!

But yeah, I just don't think you should assume his range is tight enough for this to be good. It can be an okay spot to defend if he's 3 betting light and you can make some moves post flop and find some good semi bluff spots, but yeah his range is likely not containing many light 3 betting hands nor is it super ultra nutted either. We'd still need more info imo.
10-06-2009, 05:14 PM
connectthesuitors

yeah but coolman on the turn we are calling $7 which makes the pot $21 and we know we are getting his last $8 as he is obviously pot committed. Therefore does the obvious implied odds not justify a call?
10-07-2009, 06:03 AM
Monsieur_chat

lol if I'm villain I'm cursing you and your progeny after this.
10-07-2009, 07:38 PM
Parasurama

fold pre

but why not just raise flop and stack off? We have fold equity when he has AK, and maybe JJ/TT. The strongest hand he can have is AA and even that is not happy getting raised deep oop. He's probably just flatting and checking the turn giving us a "free" river.
10-07-2009, 07:45 PM
kmind

Fold pre if you don't know what you are doing obviously. Flop you can do what you want, you have a ton of outs. If you call flop and brick turn (like you did) and he bets pot (like he did) you have to fold (implied odds).