5nl - TT facing turn re-raise w/ one overcard on board

Villain 1 is 93/37/2.7 over 60 doesn’t fold pf but folded to my cbets when I played a couple against him. In general he seemed passive (lots of limp/call/fold flop).
Villain 2 is 36/2/.9 0ver 136 Plays much the same but even more transparent (limp/sometimes call preflop, fold flop to anything looking like trouble)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($7.52)
Villain 1 (Button) ($11.77)
SB ($2.99)
BB ($1.16)
UTG ($11.12)
Hero (UTG+1) ($7.01)
Villain 2 (MP1) ($1.29)
MP2 ($2.32)
MP3 ($8.33)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
1 fold, Hero bets $0.20, Villain 2 calls $0.20, 3 folds, Villain 1 calls $0.20, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.67) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, Villain 2 checks, Villain 1 bets $0.35, Hero calls $0.35, 1 fold

Is this a cbet for the flop? With two loose callers I can certainly put a J in their range. But they will also call with a FD which would be good.....need advice on this one.

Turn: ($1.37) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $0.85, Villain 1 raises to $1.70, Hero ?

I lead out, hoping that my flop call may stiffle his spirit. He re-raises so I think I am beat unless he is semi bluffing a FD...or thinks I have FD and he has air? I'm not too convinced that he gets this ballsy w/o something here...

I have a hard time calling this bet, what else could I/should I have done on the flop to make this hand easier? Did I give up too fast?

if you were going to lead out, lead out on the flop
now fold and feel stupid

yes sir....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vinland

yes sir....

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now drop an give me 20

c/c on this flop is pretty bad, we know these guys are preflop stations and weak fit or fold passives post flop. So why are we check calling a flop where hands that bet at least have decent equity against us if they're not crushing us?

Also there are like 2 good turn cards for our hand and we're probably going to have to c/f the turn oop anyway.

I think we can bet this flop for protection since they wont be c/r bluffing or floating us hardly at all. I also don't think c/f is terrible since it's multiway and there are so many better spots to stack these idiots. If they're bad enough to call with worse here I'd lean towards betting flop.

Leading turn is bad because, we rep practically nothing, and you're only likely to get a fold if he's bluffing on the flop and we've already established this isn't too likely.

Don't "feel stupid and fold", feel an interest to learn why the hand has been so fucked up and then fold and then post it on FTR.

iopq, if you really insist on relentlessly patronising people on 78% of threads, you could at least explain why they deserve it, no?

This is the beginner's circle not the, egomaniac "I'm better than you, how dare you post a hand for my almighty 100NL scrutiny" circle.

Thx Carroters.... long time no see....

Dont sweat it with IOPQ....its in good fun b/w us....he's always calling me a pussy and I'm calling him an aggro mofo...He's been challenging me to be more aggro since I got here.

I looked at the hand, and I think I dont like the c/c flop b/c it looks like I'm on a FD possibly. This was def a spot to cbet and I missed it...
However if they fold worse, and only call with better, is a cbet worthwhile? Or are we just happy to take it down here anyway?

I think if they only call with better c.f could be viable, but there's other reasons to c bet other than for value. These guys are passive and that's the key thing here that makes me want to bet. The reasons being:

1. They aren't going to blow us the hand often either with air or draws.

2. We get value out of draws since they take passive lines

3. We get to protect our hand vs hands with overcards and things that can outdraw us on later streets, but wont call a bet at any stage otherwise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Carroters

iopq, if you really insist on relentlessly patronising people on 78% of threads, you could at least explain why they deserve it, no?

This is the beginner's circle not the, egomaniac "I'm better than you, how dare you post a hand for my almighty 100NL scrutiny" circle.

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This is wrong. I play 1/2 now.

I would fold here- it looks like he has at least a pair of jacks

The double flush draw and openender is only good if you have 4 to the hand, not 3.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Carroters

Also there are like 2 good turn cards for our hand and we're probably going to have to c/f the turn oop anyway.

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like half the deck is good for our hand. iopq said it best: if you're going to lead, lead the flop. and if you're going to lead the flop you should do it with the intention of double barrelling a lot of cards (the 4h not being one of them). 8, K, Q and any club for sure and probably A too.

against these particular opponents, though, i'd prefer checking the flop, knowing that if they bet i'm behind and can fold and wait for a better hand. if they check behind then i bet any J- turn. if you had observed that they DON'T fold to cbets, then i'd bet for value/protection.

Yes a lot of cards will give us more outs, but if you read what i actually said you'll see that I was meaning that few cards will make our hand more playable oop after we c/c the flop not after we've bet the flop, since this was an argument for why c/c is bad.
Even if we pick up a straight draw are you still over the moon about c/c the turn on this situation?

OP didn't say the villains never folded to c bets. he said they seemed to fold a lot of flops when they missed which is why we can c bet, for protection and because we probably pick the pot up a fair amount of the time despite the wet texture.

Actually, carrot. The problem w/ the BC is that ONLY a bunch of beginners answer questions and not enough higher stake players. IOPQ appears to be ~meh, from reading the forums, but he's better than micro-stake players. Most likely.

:)