25NL HH, Pls Read ALL OP before posting.

Edit: Please understand this this is a 100% abnormal play for me(I barely play OOP, and never outside of this hand w/ KQo), that is the sole reason I post.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) -


New to the Table (BB) ($25.35)
UTG ($22.70)
MP ($15.75)
CO ($30.50)
Aggro Monkey (Button) ($25.95)
Hero (SB) ($58.90)

Preflop: Hero is SB with QhKc
3 folds, Aggro Monkey bets $1, Hero calls $0.90, New to the Table calls $0.75

Flop: ($3) 5c 3s Qc
(3 players)
Hero bets $2.75, 1 fold, Aggro Monkey raises to $9, Hero raises to $15.25, Aggro Monkey raises to $24.95 (All-In), Hero calls $9.70





Agro monkey stats: 22/18/28.0
BTN PFR: 40 something%, Cbet flop and turn ~80, 70 respectively.
Over ~200 hands.
History: ~ 30 hands ago, I called big river bet on Ten high drawy(but all draws missed) board w/ AT. with him as PFR.
Before that, I played pretty aggro ~40 or 50 hands into the session only to fold to raises(2 times anyway) against him.(Point being, I showed aggression then folded)

New to the table - seems normal, nothing strange. Stats normal (taggish or w/e, but meaningless sample.)

My Reasoning:
TBH, this was exactly the kind of flop I was looking for, something drawy w/ a Q or K to get in in against him since getting it in means nut hands and a million draws. I don't say that lightly, as I truly did have a plan preflop(not for New guy to call obviously), and my entire play style is branched off of Sauces guide,(primary focus just being to play tight as hell OOP, and 3b a lot.) This hand of course, goes quite against just that guide, but my reasoning obviously being because of his aggression.
I donked it because I didn't want to c/r 3way, and get overcalled or raised by new guy, or possibly have it check around.(Unlikely w/ monkey boy, but possible 3 way. Looking back I see the likely -EV of my minraise, but my intention was to give villain the Idea that he had FE whether he thought about it much or not.(because of my previous shows of aggression then folds) and I wasn't really afraid of him calling since I don't think I've seen him make a single call yet.(agg. factor of 28...)

Thanks for the time.

just c/c the flop
if he has a flush, we have outs unless he has the nuts and we wouldn't like raising
if he has a smaller flush draw he has no outs and you'd rather let him make his flush
if he has the ace of spades, yeah we'd like to raise him but he has OK equity against us
if he has AcKx or something we're semi-owned and would not like to raise
if he has absolutely nothing we'd rather let him keep bluffing
if he has us beat right now with a set we don't like raising we'd rather hit our flush

so against most of his hands it's better to just call
even if a scare card comes off on the turn like the ace of hearts, we'll call again

Just want to make sure you're aware that the flop is 2 tone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nobody~~

Just want to make sure you're aware that the flop is 2 tone.

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aw wtf your converter sucks I thought it was four colored

Edited.

in that case don't donk into him, c/c or c/r if you want to get it in

Simple answer here is: he's an aggro monkey. That implies he'll bet his good hands and his bad hands. It also implies that he won't fold good hands if you bet, but he might fold bad hands.

Conclusion: we should be happy about this flop and have our mouse hovering over the 'call' button, not the bet button ;)

I considered it for a second, but I don't think I understand c/c OOP here on a drawy board.

is this the Aggromonkey on stars?

I played this guy HU at 50nl and he hit and run me for $2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nobody~~

I considered it for a second, but I don't think I understand c/c OOP here on a drawy board.

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it's not like we have the nuts or anything

i'm never playing for stacks w TP2K simply based on a stats read (ESPECIALLY not based on AF over 200 hands). i'm pretty sure i've run 22/18/infinite over 200 hands at tables before without playing outside of my typical norm of play. if you gave us more details about what happened in the AT hand (especially what villain showed down...unless that hand wasn't even against our current villain in which case it's really not a big deal...like not even for metagame).

if you want to play back at an opponent then watch his play carefully and get some legitmate reads from it, i sometimes even go back through the Last Hands and reread the histories where he showed down. i don't really think this opponent is worth it though until he shows a really wonky play or showdowns a truly terrible hand.

Those are pretty solid stats. I have trouble putting him on anything but AA or KK (or maybe QQ). You definately shouldn't have come over the top of his raise on the flop as there aren't many hands you can beat at that point. I would b/c the flop and see what happens from there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by golfguy37

I would b/c the flop and see what happens from there.

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if villain is raising a donk with such a wide range that it's profitable to continue with TP2K, then doesn't that make this hand fuckin' impossible to play correctly OOP with the next bet being the pressure point of the hand? i know spenda's right in saying that maybe i try too hard to avoid difficult decisions, but we're playing right into an aggro monkey's hands if we're willing to hand him the pressure point of the hand when we've already handed him position with a hand that was never going to be more than marginal

if this guy is such an aggro monkey, then he's betting this flop like 900% of the time, right? meaning our range beats his right? meaning that even if a spade comes on the turn (i wouldn't want to see an ace come on the turn) our range still beats his right? so doesn't c/c make way the f more sense?

furthermore, i think my point about how we don't have any legitimate enough reads on villain to play for stacks with this hand still applies

Quote:

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Originally Posted by golfguy37

Those are pretty solid stats. I have trouble putting him on anything but AA or KK (or maybe QQ). You definately shouldn't have come over the top of his raise on the flop as there aren't many hands you can beat at that point. I would b/c the flop and see what happens from there.

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This is clearly false.(He opens 46% of his hands here, and plays them all like the nuts.)

Villain showed down undercards to most of the board on the AT hand. Off suit gappers or something.My reads are that he raises every hand that he plays, even no draw no hand types. c/c is probably a legit. possibility, I only explained my position on the line briefly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nobody~~

This is clearly false.(He opens 46% of his hands here, and plays them all like the nuts.)

Villain showed down undercards to most of the board on the AT hand. Off suit gappers or something.My reads are that he raises every hand that he plays, even no draw no hand types. c/c is probably a legit. possibility, I only explained my position on the line briefly.

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these reads are crucial for OP. the only reads you gave us as a basis for why we were playing TP2K like the nuts was a high AF over 200 hands and a little bit of metagame. can't bash golf guy for putting him on a healthy range when this is the only info given on opponent

Having Agg. factor of 28 says something about a player over 200 hands. Does it means villain is biggest monkey in NLHE? Certainly not. Anyway, I don't mean to get sarcastic here, but the fact that villain opens 50% of hands on the BTN and has that Agg. Factor means that his flop raise is more than AA KK or QQ. I personally believe that this range is branched off of the usual percieved range of most micro-stakes regs.(That being one which assumes most players are playing tighter and better hands than they really are.)

BTW: If nobody wrote that, then why are you quoting it? ( :) )

Turning TPGK into a bluff versus an apparent spewtard probably isn't a great idea. Just call him down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

Turning TPGK into a bluff versus an apparent spewtard probably isn't a great idea. Just call him down.

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If I hear this... "omg... you just turned ur hand into a bluff b.c. I suck at getting value" - crap again, I'm going to find out where you live and trout slap you IRL.

donking is fine if you want to build a pot to shove - since you know he's most likely raising.

Without those reads I like a c/r much better. If you never c/r unless you have the nuts or a bluff, you'll have to reduce your bluffing frequency, or else he will pick you off too light, and he can give up if you just c/c, because that looks like a hand that won't give up easily on later streets.

With a c/r you can represent a semi bluff, total air, the nuts, TP. He could shove on you there with KT, and he's not even making a huge mistake.

28AF doesn't mean he bets a lot, it means he doesn't call a lot and plays strictly raise/fold

Yeah, that also... but I trust his read that sais he's ALWAYS raising, so idk...
obv. c/r is the easier line if you can't count on him to raise over a donk bet.

lol its still just 200 hands, his AF is likely inflated due to how he's running.