River value shove

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06-22-2009, 05:06 AM

River value shove

Villain is 27/19 with a 3b of 5.3 over 122
he seems like a standard tag

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($100)
MP ($164.80)
CO ($262.15)
Hero (Button) ($105.25)
SB ($108.90)
BB ($100)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
3 folds, Hero bets $2.50, SB calls $2, 1 fold

Flop: ($6) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, SB calls $3

Turn: ($12) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8, SB calls $8

River: ($28) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets $19, Hero raises to $91.75 (All-In)

now, he could flat 77 on the flop and keep slowplaying on the turn since he's not in danger of being outdrawn
but AK/KK/AA are just not realistic because he would 3b those
what, if anything, am I getting paid off here by? 76/65?
seems like a spot where I should think about flatting, but it just feels nitty as hell
06-22-2009, 08:24 AM
bigspenda73

meh he probably bet/calls AQ/AJ here even though it's awful so I don't hate shoving, but I'd probably raise small.
06-22-2009, 08:49 AM
pocketfours

I think a shove is fine.
06-22-2009, 09:39 AM
Luke999

Looks fine.
06-22-2009, 10:03 AM
griffey24

Not shoving here is ridiculous.

Would be a more interesting/closer spot if you had AK.
06-22-2009, 11:26 AM
Galapogos

He could also think you're an ace with less than a king kicker that's trying to push him off a split pot, if he thinks you're capable of doing that.
06-23-2009, 07:43 AM
pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

He could also think you're an ace with less than a king kicker that's trying to push him off a split pot, if he thinks you're capable of doing that.

fail
06-23-2009, 08:01 AM
pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

Not shoving here is ridiculous.

Would be a more interesting/closer spot if you had AK.

It's not ridiculous at all. Shoving AK here without some dynamic would be retarded, with this hand it's close.
06-23-2009, 09:33 AM
griffey24

I really don't think this particular hand is close at all. You're probably right that AK isn't all that close, but I really think this needs to be a shove.

I rarely see regs take this line with a boat hardly ever, and if they do, the majority of the time their river bet is certainly bigger to look like they are stealing a chop. Either that, or most regs would c/bomb the river.

Not jamming here is putting villain on exactly 7's full (which might not even play the hand like this more than 35% of the time - usually c/r flop or turn or riv) or 67 for which we have blockers. If we are considering 67, then its for sure also possible he has other 6x hands that will pay off riv, and I'd say that its more likely that he plays other 6x hands like this than 67 which might c/r flop with two pair some percentage of the time.

Sure if villain leads like 28 on river, then maybe we can think about flatting, but once he bets 19 I'm not really convinced.
06-23-2009, 10:29 AM
zook

bet the flop and turn bigger and wtfshove river
06-23-2009, 10:43 AM
bigspenda73

How can you guys be so certain he's going to bet/call a jam with AJ/AQ, that seems to be the range we're looking to get value from, otherwise I don't see what other hands he's calling a shove with besides KK/77.
06-23-2009, 10:56 AM
langaan

spenda, check your pm please...
06-23-2009, 10:56 AM
sk8r_daniel

It seems like you are maximizing how much you lose when you are beat and making it easier for opponent to fold anything else. I would bet $47.
06-23-2009, 11:10 AM
Luke999

This is 100nl, people are stations. Any 6 is calling, probably any high ace and probably pocket god damn 10's that put you on a 6 or air cuz some people are just that bad.

Against a range it's a shove, putting villain on 1 hand is silly.
06-23-2009, 04:17 PM
pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

How can you guys be so certain he's going to bet/call a jam with AJ/AQ, that seems to be the range we're looking to get value from, otherwise I don't see what other hands he's calling a shove with besides KK/77.

Villain doesn't bet the river with AJ/AQ here like ever.
06-23-2009, 06:26 PM
dsaxton

Quote:

Originally Posted by sk8r_daniel

It seems like you are maximizing how much you lose when you are beat and making it easier for opponent to fold anything else. I would bet $47.

Any raise pot commits you to calling a shove, which he'll do with all better hands, so shoving loses the same as raising less. It's purely a question of winning the maximum from worse hands.
06-23-2009, 09:28 PM
Alexos

not close, shove
06-23-2009, 09:32 PM
mixchange

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexos

not close, shove

no this is a clear raise/fold
06-24-2009, 08:47 AM
pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexos

not close, shove

Care to elaborate why you don't think it's close? There's three combos of 77 and only one combo of 67s. Those are arguably the only hands he'll call with.

Of course villain will make a bad call here a lot, which is why I like a shove as well, but I certainly think it's close, especially with a solid image.
06-24-2009, 10:58 AM
Toadstool

I'm going to say shove, but I think it would be closer if you bet 4.50 or bigger on the flop, as I think not raising when you only bet half pot weights his range less towards 77. A lot of people will slowplay when you cbet 3/4 but if you only bet 1/2 pot they feel like they need to raise, as you're not going to be building much of a pot for them. It's also 100nl so I wouldn't give him credit for being able to fold 6x here, also, do you think that leading the river makes his range slightly weaker? when he has the option to C/R?
06-24-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketfours

a solid image.

I wonder what that would be like...
I definitely don't have that since villain called it off with AQ
06-24-2009, 12:39 PM
Galapogos

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

villain called it off with AQ

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

He could also think you're an ace with less than a king kicker that's trying to push him off a split pot, if he thinks you're capable of doing that.

fail

win :D

/results oriented
06-24-2009, 12:42 PM
pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketfours

a solid image.

I wonder what that would be like...
I definitely don't have that since villain called it off with AQ

Well if you don't have a solid image then why are you asking if you should shove a boat on the river 100BB deep? wtf
06-24-2009, 12:44 PM
pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

villain called it off with AQ

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

He could also think you're an ace with less than a king kicker that's trying to push him off a split pot, if he thinks you're capable of doing that.

fail

win :D

/results oriented

gala-p4's 1-0
06-24-2009, 07:45 PM
mixchange

I don't even get why IOPQ posted this hand. Should I shove a boat? I mean really? and not shoving here putting him on slowplayed 777? wtf
06-24-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

I don't even get why IOPQ posted this hand. Should I shove a boat? I mean really? and not shoving here putting him on slowplayed 777? wtf

ok guilty as charged
I just wanted to see what the hell people could put him on here
06-24-2009, 10:29 PM
mixchange

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

I don't even get why IOPQ posted this hand. Should I shove a boat? I mean really? and not shoving here putting him on slowplayed 777? wtf

ok guilty as charged
I just wanted to see what the hell people could put him on here

So this was a lie? ;p

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

seems like a spot where I should think about flatting, but it just feels nitty as hell
06-30-2009, 12:57 AM
bigred

Quote:

Originally Posted by zook

bet the flop and turn bigger and wtfshove river

http://i43.tinypic.com/152fam9.jpg
06-30-2009, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

I don't even get why IOPQ posted this hand. Should I shove a boat? I mean really? and not shoving here putting him on slowplayed 777? wtf

ok guilty as charged
I just wanted to see what the hell people could put him on here

So this was a lie? ;p

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

seems like a spot where I should think about flatting, but it just feels nitty as hell

well I thought about it
in the one second it took me to shovel
06-30-2009, 06:31 AM
Parasurama

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred

Quote:

Originally Posted by zook

bet the flop and turn bigger and wtfshove river

http://i43.tinypic.com/152fam9.jpg

lol this is funny because there's a reg at 50NL on stars named shipopotamus
06-30-2009, 11:49 AM
bigred

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parasurama

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred

Quote:

Originally Posted by zook

bet the flop and turn bigger and wtfshove river

http://i43.tinypic.com/152fam9.jpg

lol this is funny because there's a reg at 50NL on stars named shipopotamus

I thought it was the funniest name I've seen in awhile and will not refer to allins as [x]shippapotamus