Planning my 3bet and 4bet Pots
Ok so since moving up to 25NL i have being trying to get my 3bet % up in and out of position. In my attempts i believe i am spewing a lot and its mostly due to the lack of a good plan which is strongly related to my experience.
Question 1 - When to Start 3betting
When do u start 3betting players? What i am trying to say is do u wait for say at least 20 hands on the guy then start testing the waters with a 3bet? Lets say you have 5 hands on a villian he opens BTN and you got AQ in SB. Now against a villian who i know is opening a lot of BTNs this is an easy 3bet for me.
Basically what would the standard line vs an unknow when it comes to 3betting. Also how many hands is enough to adjust the standard line if needs be?
Question 2 - 3betting Ranges
At the moment i 3bet with a polarised range in and out of position. Below would be my standard ranges.
3betting for value hands like AQ+ JJ+ to the BTN/CO and if the villian is very aggressive then his MP opens.
I am flatting hands like AJ KQ 99-TT as they play well vs a wide open, but doesnt do to well against a villian continuing range when i 3bet.
Then 3betting suited connectors, one gappers and small PPs as bluffs
I have heard a lot of talk about 3betting Axs. Is that still polarised ? Also some general thought on 3betting this hands plz.
Is this a good standard strategy ?
Question 3 - Exploitation
So the 3bet stats i have on my HUD are Fold to 3bet%, 3bet% and fold to Cbet in 3bet pot %. I also have pfr by street to see how wide villian are opening. What are ranges for these numbers?
If a villian has a low fold to 3bet% what is the best way to exploit him? I would think to losen my value 3betting range a little to say add AQ and TT, as well as losen my flatting range to his opens say adding KJ and 88. Will tend to 3bet bluff this villian a lot less.
If villian has a high fold to 3bet% what is the best way to exploit him? I would think that i would prob move some of my standard value hands into my calling range and widen my bluffing range to take advantage of him folding too much.
Question 4 - Calling 3bets
I suspect that i fold to correctly sized 3bet a little too much. So what sort of ranges are we looking to call a 3bet with. Obviously position and his 3bet% would be the decidining factors. Here i have very little idea so am not even gonna venture a guess
Question 5 - 4betting
How important is 4betting at 25NL as a bluff ? Also when do we 4bet 2.5x or 4bet jam ?
My standard at 10NL was never to 4bet except against a drooler when i had AA/KK.
At what 3bet% must villian have for me to consider to start 4betting as a bluff?
EDIT
Question 5 : Playing postflop
Ok so the SPR in 3bet pots on flop is smaller so how does this effect our cbetting frequency?
For exmaple say we 3bet 79s out of the BB to a BTN who open 25% of his BTNs and fold to 3bet of only 30%. Flop comes 2 5 5. Are we c/f this flop as a large part of his range is PP's and AK AQ that might peel one given dynamic. If we gonna be c/f 3bet pot on the flop then we need to balance that with c/f some good hands as well correct ?
Re: Planning my 3bet and 4bet Pots
been waitin till i was awake enough to read through and answer this.
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Originally Posted by Evilpopcorn
Question 1 - When to Start 3betting
When do u start 3betting players? What i am trying to say is do u wait for say at least 20 hands on the guy then start testing the waters with a 3bet? Lets say you have 5 hands on a villian he opens BTN and you got AQ in SB. Now against a villian who i know is opening a lot of BTNs this is an easy 3bet for me.
Basically what would the standard line vs an unknow when it comes to 3betting. Also how many hands is enough to adjust the standard line if needs be?
Ok first,
AQ isnt an easy 3b at all. if someones continuing range is {TT+,AQs+,KQs,AQo+,KQo} then AQ only has 43% equity and we're oop and had solid equity vs his opening range. If his continuing range is wider, ie {99+,AJs+,KJs+,QJs,AJo+,KJo+,QJo}, then we have 53% equity, but that generally isnt enough of an advantage to justify being oop in a big pot. He folds alot of his range to a 3b, ya, but we can exploit that by bluffing more with hands that are bluffs.
My standard line depending on info on villain changes based on if im doing it as a bluff or for value.
If im doing it for value, then i dont need much information on villain at all. A good estimation of a villain's continuing range is like {TT+, AQ+}, so if im ever ahead of that range ill usually 3b for value without thinking to much about villain. There are some villains who continue tighter than this and some that continue wider and figuring that out will be helpful in maximizing your "3b for value" value, but its pretty safe to just 3b a tight range at micros.
If im doing it as a bluff, i need enough hands to know that he'll fold to a 3b enough to make it profitable. if we do a potsized 3b which is usually like 3x or so...i beleive we need villain to fold like 67% of the time to breakeven (i forgot the actual number, but thats not really all that important to where im going with this). With some villains we dont really have this FE, so its just a bad idea. Like 4/2's for instance. So id say ud need enough hands to understand what type of villain villain is and then start 3betting as a bluff. This isnt to say you need 1000 hands on every villain though...because you can usually tell with a reasonable degree of accuracy weather a villain plays tight enough or loose enough or whatever to justify 3bet bluffing.
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Question 2 - 3betting Ranges
At the moment i 3bet with a polarised range in and out of position. Below would be my standard ranges.
3betting for value hands like AQ+ JJ+ to the BTN/CO and if the villian is very aggressive then his MP opens.
I am flatting hands like AJ KQ 99-TT as they play well vs a wide open, but doesnt do to well against a villian continuing range when i 3bet.
Then 3betting suited connectors, one gappers and small PPs as bluffs
I have heard a lot of talk about 3betting Axs. Is that still polarised ? Also some general thought on 3betting this hands plz.
Is this a good standard strategy ?
3b for value range looks ok, just be careful with the bottom part because as ive told you before, many villains arent continuing enough.
flat range looks ok too, if you're paying attention at the table though (ie, have like paragraphs of notes on each player) then you can probably widen the shit out of this when ip with hands like JTs, QTs and other shit. generally...my smaller pocket pairs are in this range as well though and not in my bluff range because of set value and the occasional value i get when villain doesnt flop anything and i can position pwn him.
bluff range is ok too. id lean towards sc's more than one gappers obviously, but the difference isnt that great. the idea with 3betting these as bluffs is that when called, they have a larger amount of equity vs hands like AA where other hands are crushed. they also hit flops a standard continuing range wont and can be very deceptive. Reasoning for Axs is that it has some value from floping flush draws and an ace, contain blockers against the stronger part of villains range making it more likely that he has a hand he'll fold, and its a hand we dont have solid equity against a continuing range with because when we flop an ace we are gonna be in wa/wb situations pretty often which kinda sucks without initiative.
hands like J7s K4s and others that contain blockers against the top of villains range but dont fair too well against his opening range are also good candiadates for much the same reasons that Axs is.
and ya, of course its still polarized. our range is value and bluffs and there really isnt any inbetween even when 3betting like Axs. Only thing is to watch out how often u 3b. Theres alot of hands u can 3b as a bluff, but if you've 3b 4 hands in the last 6 orbits you arent getting near as much fold equity.
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Question 3 - Exploitation
So the 3bet stats i have on my HUD are Fold to 3bet%, 3bet% and fold to Cbet in 3bet pot %. I also have pfr by street to see how wide villian are opening. What are ranges for these numbers?
If a villian has a low fold to 3bet% what is the best way to exploit him? I would think to losen my value 3betting range a little to say add AQ and TT, as well as losen my flatting range to his opens say adding KJ and 88. Will tend to 3bet bluff this villian a lot less.
If villian has a high fold to 3bet% what is the best way to exploit him? I would think that i would prob move some of my standard value hands into my calling range and widen my bluffing range to take advantage of him folding too much.
no clue to the first paragraph.
if villain has a low fold to 3bet %, then we dont have much fold equity. this means are bluffs no longer become immediately successful (if fold to cb in 3b pot is high we can still do it occasionally). However, if they are continuing fairly wide, we can usually widen our 3b for value range to take advantage of it. If villain doesnt fold often to 3bets though, i dont really see a reason to widen our calling range...it seems silly.
if he has a high fold to 3bet% we still want our value range to be 3betting because we want money in the pot and many villains arent folding their premiums regardless of how often they fold to 3bets. and ya, widen bluffing range is good...just dont make it obvious ur bluffing wider or youll get 4b more often.
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Question 4 - Calling 3bets
I suspect that i fold to correctly sized 3bet a little too much. So what sort of ranges are we looking to call a 3bet with. Obviously position and his 3bet% would be the decidining factors. Here i have very little idea so am not even gonna venture a guess
even at 25nl, many villains arent 3betting as a bluff too often and are often doing it strictly for value with a tightish range. so we want to be calling with a range of hands that has good enough equity to continue against that range. Depending on how tight that value range is though depends on what hands are in our calling range. for instance, QQ can be a prime calling hand in some scnearios, while AJs might be on in others. and ya, position and 3bet% will factor into this.
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Question 5 - 4betting
How important is 4betting at 25NL as a bluff ? Also when do we 4bet 2.5x or 4bet jam ?
My standard at 10NL was never to 4bet except against a drooler when i had AA/KK.
At what 3bet% must villian have for me to consider to start 4betting as a bluff?
since most villains arent really 3betting bluff monkeys yet, 4betting as a bluff is kind of stupid at 25nl. when it is usefull, it should only be done rarely anyway so its not that important.
he needs to be 3betting and folding to a 4b alot for it to be profitable at all. what percent is a guess, like...there isnt really a standard "if his 3b% is 6 u should 4b bluff" or anything...id guess that 10% is reasonable over a LARGE number of hands though.
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EDIT
Question 5 : Playing postflop
Ok so the SPR in 3bet pots on flop is smaller so how does this effect our cbetting frequency?
For exmaple say we 3bet 79s out of the BB to a BTN who open 25% of his BTNs and fold to 3bet of only 30%. Flop comes 2 5 5. Are we c/f this flop as a large part of his range is PP's and AK AQ that might peel one given dynamic. If we gonna be c/f 3bet pot on the flop then we need to balance that with c/f some good hands as well correct ?
someone who folds to a 3b of only 30% is a pretty shitty candidate to be 3b bluffing. we need them to fold alot more than that to get immediate value pre. if he folds to cbets alot then we might be able to justify this...but otherwise its a standard fold pre. and if hes folding only 30%, then his continuing range is like 17.5% of hands, which is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY wider than AK, AQ and pocketpairs.
how does c/f good hands balance c/f bad ones? the idea of balance is to make us harder to exploit so we want to make it so villain doesnt just go "lol u check i bet". By c/f'ing more hands we make it easier for him to exploit us...but by c/r'ing some hands...then we make it a bit harder and are appropriately balancing.
ok, that was alot. gl
