10NL: 3bet pot vs maniac in multiway pot on drawy board

Villian Stats : (VP$IP/PFR [Street Aggression] 3-bet%)

UTG: 74/30 [5 6 12] 0% over 42 hands.

Donk Bet% = 75%

My Thoughts And Questions
Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players

So this villian is donk betting 3/4 boards so i am def ahead of his range. The problem is i dunno if i like getting it in on this flop and with this villian being quite maniac like i would expect him to jam alot. The problem is i also dont like flatting letting in the BTN cheaper on such a drawy board. At least i do have TT making the chances of their Tx combos that give straight draws less.

Thoughts ?

SB: $7.10
BB: $11.85
UTG: $9.65
Hero (MP): $11.15
CO: $11.70
BTN: $18.35

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP with T:spade: T:diamond:
UTG raises to $0.20, Hero raises to $0.80, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.80, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.60

Flop: ($2.55) 9:diamond: 4:spade: 8:diamond: (3 players)
UTG bets $0.90, Hero?

He most likely called because the button came along or he just doesn't care about about pf raises. His bet into the flop is pretty weak. I would raise 3x as I'm not to worried about the BTN either. CC 3bet is pretty spewy and if BTN hit his set so be it and fold to his raise...If UTG cc's your raise jam any none diamond turn.

edit: This looks like villain is betting a draw.

1. I don’t like 3betting TT pre- from MP where I can end up deep, with crappy position in a big multi-way pot (which you were responsible in big part for building….)

2. But now you’re there… What UTG opening range are you assuming? What PF range are you considering for the Bu? If you seen UTG donk 75% of his hands, what has he done it with? Problem is, you’re in a pretty sh!tty position at this point. You got two opps to worry about… You now lose to all but 5 of the pps, 98 makes 2pr and there’s a whole bunch of draws that you’re going to have a hard time denying odds to. Yes, you have a T, but 67 is still very much alive, and of course flush and combo draws.

3. So now is the time to plan the rest of this hand… If you raise UTG, you’re basically committing yourself. You hope Bu folds, but he could very easily be sitting on a strong made/draw hand and call. If he does, it’s almost a foregone conclusion that UTG will call 1.80 or so into what will then be an almost a $9 pot (assuming raise to 2.70-ish) -- fabulous odds for all his draws. And at that point, almost any Turn action commits you for stacks, not to mention it’s prolly unlikely “maniac” is not going to see a showdown -- which introduces any A/K/Q/J over two streets as enough to beat you.

Your other option is to flat UTG to exercise a bit of pot control w/ a barely overpair, see what button does and reeval the Turn. If Bu raises and UTG comes along, I’m folding as I just don’t see playing TT for stacks multiway.

I'd call a normal size bet, but I guess raising is better if it's that small
although you can call and wait for a safe turn card to jam (lolomaha move)

Yeah if UTG had put in a normal raise i would have just called, but i when he min raise i fell TT crushes his range and i have to raise. BTN CC kinda complicates the hand.

Seems like consensus is to flat this flop bet see what BTN does and evaluate turn ?

Got a read on the Button? As played, I'd love to get it in against UTG, but have this sick feeling that he shows you like Jacks here.

My database is on my other pc, but if i remember correctly the BNT was kinda tight making his flat preflop looking like he was set mining. With that read tho i guess there are a lot less flush/straigh draws in his range which would make flatting the flop better ?

I will need to check my read on BTN.

I don't mind the 3b iso on the fish, but this is the problem of trying to exploit - a TAGG-reg gets in the way, and you're in a goofy spot with no good options. From MP, flatting isn't bad w/ TT, hoping to get HU against the fish later in the hand when you have him crushed.

3 bet iso is totally fine vs this guy imo, we don't really wanna invite QJs etc to flat along that have position on us.

Bleh just call flop I suppose and call most turns provided tag/reg folds flop.

If maniac slows down we can value town him on later streets I think we are a decent bit ahead of his stack off range on raggy turns so getting it in can't be bad if either provided we're Hu with maniac.

If reg/tag doesn't go away on this flop I'd be worried and prob not put any more monies in.

Shove preflop next time so that you don't have to make hard flop decisions

Ok so the BTN stats are 22/14 [3 0 inf] 8%.

I did flat in the actual hand on the flop but i remember wishing that UTG had actually bet this harder. Would have made my call more comfortable if that makes sense.

I am really glad i have TT to take away the Tx straight draws, as well as a diamond if my hand as a blocker for the flush.

i def don't like flatting the fish's min-bet here, but i'd rather go 3x's. i'd raise the flop (though i'm not thrilled about it) or else the BU gets odds to see the turn we like KJ+ that has even just one diamond in it. do you have any reads on the maniac's bet-sizing up until this point? if he general bets closer to 2/3 PSB then i think it's value town population you, but if small betting is standard for him, then we potentially face a lot of tough decisions

surviva, where did you get that avatar?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speedcake

surviva, where did you get that avatar?

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i was making a facebook event about a tour de franzia i would be hosting. i google imaged franzia and this delightful picture showed up.

fwiw, i lost the tour de franzia by less then a minute, puked, pissed my pants and had to show up a week later in court for letting my 20 yr 10 month old friend drink wine. i'm livin' the american dream