5NL: QQ on J High Flop - A on the Turn

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06-07-2009, 01:33 PM
Bradley

5NL: QQ on J High Flop - A on the Turn

Hey I've been reading these forums for a while now, never really posted though. I've quit playing a few months ago, but decided to start back up after buying in a few dollars(pure boredom) and basically x10'd that 20 bucks in no time.

Got HEM and I really wanna get better, this forum seems helpful.. people say the best way to learn is post hands so I'll start of posting :)
I don't really know which hands I should post..? Because usually when I review them I see what I did wrong. Or I put opp on the exact hand he has(which beats me) and I still call..big leak :s

If anyone has other advice/tips on things to do/don't or read articles to improve your play.. they are welcome! I'm 3-4 tabling 5NL now bascially.

Villain was 29/8 over 38 hands

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($7.44)
Button ($6.27)
Hero (SB) ($5.47)
BB ($5.97)
UTG ($1.83)
UTG+1 ($4.62)
MP1 ($7.32)
MP2 ($3.10)

Preflop: Hero is SB with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qh.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qd.gif
2 folds, MP1 bets $0.15, 2 folds, Button calls $0.15, Hero raises $0.48, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.35, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.20) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/jc.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/6c.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/8h.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $0.90, MP1 calls $0.90

Turn: ($3) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/as.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $1.50

Hero ?

I think this should be a fold.. quite a lot aces in his range even though it's a small sample of hands. Anyways what are your thoughts?
06-07-2009, 03:46 PM
sarbox68

I'd bet the flop bigger... you're vulnerable to a lot of overcards plus the flush/straight draws, so make him pay to draw... I'd prolly pot it (1.20-ish).

Think about how villain sees your action. You 3bet a MP open vs a reasonably tight player (so you're prolly not just defending against an attempted steal...) from the SB, so you'll have to play the rest OOP. This makes your likely range 99+,AK,AQ... more likely TT+,AK. You cbet the flop, but a little on the smaller side... but, meh, you could just be cbet happy and have whiffed AK, or you have a made over pair.

Now the A hits and you check. Unless he thinks you're trying to get tricky w/ an AK checkraise, there's little reason for him to think you'd do this unless you're scared of the A. So I think it's a foregone conclusion that he's going to bet the A regardless of whether it hits.
06-07-2009, 04:17 PM
Bradley

True that, I should have c-bet about potsize.. usually do that on drawy boards with overpairs, don't know why I didn't do it this time

But my real question is what would you do on the turn?

He called my 3bet PF, so after calling my c-bet I figured he either had AK or AQ.

Because:

KJ would fold pre flop to a 3bet, if not he'd raise my c-bet probably.
JJ either folds the 3b pf or raises the c-bet with 2 clubs out there
AJ, KK would probably raise aswell on a drawy flop like that.
AA would've 4bet/pushed pre-flop.

I left some hands out, I know but it's because those are either a fold PF or a raise post flop.

So I kinda felt I was beat.. "betting to know where you're at" is stupid, right? You are just throwing money away, I could've bet, get raised - fold, or check, villain bets and I would have a hard time calling with probably a 2-outer.

any thoughts?
06-07-2009, 04:20 PM
golfguy37

You should come out betting the turn. It shows weakness to check and he could be on a bluff or semibluff flush draw. Who knows? If you bet and he raises, then you have something to be worried about. I agree with sarbox, you should have bet slightly more on the flop.
06-07-2009, 04:22 PM
AFchung

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfguy37

You should come out betting the turn. It shows weakness to check and he could be on a bluff or semibluff flush draw. Who knows? If you bet and he raises, then you have something to be worried about. I agree with sarbox, you should have bet slightly more on the flop.

a 29/8 at 5nl probably isnt semi bluffing too frequently. i think they'd take the free card

as for the turn, id probably c/f too. but im a huge nit

:(
06-07-2009, 06:18 PM
revolvingiris

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradley

But my real question is what would you do on the turn?

He called my 3bet PF, so after calling my c-bet I figured he either had AK or AQ.

Because:

KJ would fold pre flop to a 3bet, if not he'd raise my c-bet probably.
JJ either folds the 3b pf or raises the c-bet with 2 clubs out there
AJ, KK would probably raise aswell on a drawy flop like that.
AA would've 4bet/pushed pre-flop.

You could also 4x pf and pot the flop with this type of board. Your reads on his calling range come into play here...Just from looking at the hand he could have AKs, AQs, AJ, JJ, 88, 66. All of these take the line he has chosen.

KJ is not folding pf if its in his raise/call range. It could easily be in his B range. Which would make sense being you checked the A. Is he aggro/bluffy?
JJ never folds here pf

It seems like your trying to convince yourself of what villains range is and using your own range as a comparison. A VP$IP of 29 is kind of loose and being he has position on you. There is a wide range of actions he can take after your turn check.

I think your folding here but the point of my response wasnt what action I would take.