shot at 25NL, interesting hands

villain is 24/4/inf
hasent 3bet before let alone limp 4bet minraises.
wtf is his range for doing this? And, should I shove rather than call?
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($26.37)
MP ($20.93)
CO ($26.20)
Button ($27.76)
Hero (SB) ($25)
BB ($24.52)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
1 fold, MP calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button bets $1, Hero raises to $3.25, 1 fold, MP raises to $5.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.25

Flop: ($12.25) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $4.50, hero is confuzzled.


villain is 22/22/1.7 over 80 hands
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($31.18)
Button ($12.46)
SB ($18.86)
Hero (BB) ($25.35)
UTG ($42.67)
MP ($28.59)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
UTG bets $0.85, 1 fold, CO calls $0.85, 1 fold, SB calls $0.75, Hero raises to $4.70, UTG calls $3.85, CO calls $3.85, 1 fold

Flop: ($14.95) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $10, UTG calls $10, 1 fold

Turn: ($34.95) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $10.65 (All-In)
Standard? Wouldn't he 4bet or raise flop with better?



no reads just sat down
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($26.53)
Hero (Button) ($25)
SB ($25)
BB ($119.11)
UTG ($25.68)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
2 folds, Hero bets $1, SB raises to $3.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $10.50, SB calls $7.25

Flop: ($21.25) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
SB bets $14.50 (All-In)
Whats the EV of calling here if his range is qq-1010 only?

1 - based on pre-flop expect aces. You called the 4-bet for set odds right? you missed and have an under-pair. Fold flop.

2 - i don't like pre-flop 3-bet cos i'm a FR nit. Post-flop - what is villain's calling range on flop? also, a c-bet of $8 accomplishes much the same as $10 here.

3 - yuck.

and download pokerstove.

downloading it right now.

If we don't 3bet the JJ we're seeing a 4way flop for set value with a hand that has much more value headsup?

Hand 1: b/f flop maybe?

Hand 2: Standard.

Hand 3: This is why I don't often 4ball AK. Pot stuck.

1 just fold w/e
2 ya his range is probably like 88-QQ and maybe some AJcc AQcc hand
3 4bet too big, $7-$7.50 I like IP here

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lucothefish

Hand 1: b/f flop maybe?

Hand 2: Standard.

Hand 3: This is why I don't often 4ball AK. Pot stuck.

---

since the correct advice on the hands has been given, I'll critique your thinking
1. what hands fold that we don't beat if we bet flop?
what hands call and check to showdown if we bet flop?
plus, what hand do you expect him to have?

3. so you only 4b KK+, gotcha
obviously fourth best hand in the game not good enough
and I mean if he 3b your BU steal from SB he obviously has the nuts


btw if you look at the bet sizing, 4x is too big, then he makes a good sized 3b... either go tiny on the 4b or shove since a shove is 6.5x his 3b anyway
a "normal" 4b would be like $8 but that's too big because after he calls the flop is $16 with $17 left in the stack giving us an SPR a sliver above 1, which is like lol shove any pair if a king or ace don't flop
our "target" SPR should be 1.5 on a 4b pot so the 4b would be $6.5 which is just tiny compared to his 3b and he might have odds to call with a 3b bluff hand like QJs

so I definitely like just shoving
but our button opens should be 2.5x or 3x, usually most people just 3b to 10x (must be a psychology thing), and we can 4b to 25x giving us a 50BB pot when called with a 75BB stack
then if I want to bet I bet 25BB on one street and the rest on another street

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iopq

so I definitely like just shoving
but our button opens should be 2.5x or 3x, usually most people just 3b to 10x (must be a psychology thing), and we can 4b to 25x giving us a 50BB pot when called with a 75BB stack
then if I want to bet I bet 25BB on one street and the rest on another street

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I'm definetly going to be trying this 3x from bu and the smaller 4betting. What would the sizing be if the same situation happened OOP, for example raising from the cu n getting 3b by button? We making 4bet bigger right?


Whats the plan if the flop comes down 8high and he checks to us, are we checking behind?
I'm basing his range mainly on hands that aren't folding to a CB anyhow, i.e 1010-qq.

1/ KK is the only one that folds.
2/ Point taken. I usually flat or shove with AK but I can see I have work to do here, although your SPR comments kinda prove my point.

what are stats for button in first situation?
likely this affects villians limp 4bet.
aa maybe, but i think more likely kk. he would bet slightly bigger with aa?
even if he does have kk i still think you cant make him fold enough to show profit.