It's end of month micro review time.... come on in.

Soooo, it's the last day of the month and i expect we've all learned loads since the last stats review. I fancy this might become a regular thing for us lot because a) our stakes move quite fast usually and b) it gives us a chance to bond as a brothers of stake, strengthen our community and send cuddles to eachother.

So last night I got sweated by Robb, and he was indeed a splendid fellow and i won 4 buy-ins before his very eyes. After that win + more recent wins, plus some discussion, i've decided to end 5 and start 10 next month, have the night off to psyche myself and come at things afresh tomorrow. Boy will i shit myself.

So, i recommend you take off your work shoes, light a cigarette, grab a tastey beverage and get into some stock taking, reflecting, and graph posting.

GRAPH 1: overall play

http://www.stayinwonderland.com/clie...e-annotate.gif

GRAPH 2: march

http://www.stayinwonderland.com/clie...raph-march.gif

GRAPH 3: april

http://www.stayinwonderland.com/clie...raph-april.gif

Month by Month winnings comparison:

http://www.stayinwonderland.com/clie...l/winnings.gif

STATS 1: winnings overall

http://www.stayinwonderland.com/clie...onth-total.gif

STATS 2: summary

http://www.stayinwonderland.com/clie...al-summary.gif

My Notes, thoughts etc.

Well, i feel very proud of myself, April was the toughest month so far, once i hit 10 and went down, i couldn't get back up for ages AS YOU ALL KNOW coz i whined about it, which is ok coz i also listened and got a lot of help from you guys. So thanks. But i managed to almost finish on par with March in terms of winnings and also managed to play a fair few more hands this month.

Looking back, i can honestly say that the flat spot was around 1/3 bad play and 2/3 variance because the shit just kept hitting me. Getting out of it involved changing the time of day i was playing to a fishier time, and starting tables (thanks keith_mm). Plus recently the cards have been a little more kind. But the question always came up: why don't you just admit you're a shit poker player?

This is the wrong line of thought in my opinioné. See, the notion of: do i suck at poker... is an impossible question to answer in ernest because there's no such definable thing as 'poker'. In relation to the WORLD of poker, let's say successful players, i AM shit at poker. But i'm playing 5nl, which i have proved i can kill... so the question is: do you suck at your stake? and the answer for me is no. It's a subtle difference. I mean i can't play 100nl. It's a different 'kind' of game to 5nl. I don't quite know how to deal with light 3bettors or 4bettors... that's not something you see much at ALL at 5nl.

So it's more constructive to ask: do i have the skill to beat my stake? and then: do i have the skill to beat/play the next stake and am i rolled (obviously)?

Goals for may:
- Play at least 15k hands
- STAY at 10 and that's it, just play there and stay. I don't care how much i win as long as i'm stable at 10
- Buy PNLH and start reading that
- Finish reading The Poker Mindset
- Stop going apeshit when i lose, by a factor of 15%

Special thanks to:
Stacks (the formative years... or hands)
Dranger (that sweat took me up a noticeable level, so thanks!, you're too good for 10nl, this ought to be just wounds licking time, then straight back on the climb)
Spenda (grinderschool vids also took me up a noticeable level)
Robb (cheers for the help, man, it was invaluable)
Keith (ah them feesh, cheers for the tip!)
Outlaw (nice post on the variance thing. Changed my understanding of hands over time)

nice work
I advise more aggression pre-flop

Nice work man, keep it up!

Let me know if you want to sweat each other sometime, I had one with Robb last night and it was very informative. Its always nice to have a 2nd thinking player to discuss spots with. PM me.

GL with the new month!!

O

God I would love to see what my stats look like, but there's no way I'm paying $50 for a Cake hand converter. By the time I'm at the level where it actually matters, I'll be off cake anyway. :s

Are there any free ones?

Quote:

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God I would love to see what my stats look like, but there's no way I'm paying $50 for a Cake hand converter. By the time I'm at the level where it actually matters, I'll be off cake anyway. :s

Are there any free ones?

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*slaps face, hands slides down slowly* so, anyway...

Ya, thanks for the encouragement guys... was hoping we'd get a discussion going though and you guys post your monthly thoughts, aspirations for the following etc. It's like having new years resolutions each month, i think a month is one poker year at these stakes :p

Outlaw.. yeah, awesome... but i really don't think i'd be up to much in terms of sweating you! i'm pretty standard! that said, doing the whole teamview open discussion thing is AWESOME, i love talking poker and getting stuck into it with someone. So hold that thought :)

Everyone else join in, let's see people review their own performance on here, it's most constructive.

oh god you're 24/11 over 16K hands
I know people talk crap about starting hand charts, but using one for you is more EV+ than doing what you do now

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iopq

oh god you're 24/11 over 16K hands
I know people talk crap about starting hand charts, but using one for you is more EV+ than doing what you do now

---

Easy now, mind your I's and O's and P's and Q's here.

I watched him play last night and we talked about opening ranges a good bit. And at least 4-5% of that 24 comes from all the limping EVERYONE ELSE does in his games. Jeez, I haven't ever seen so many 5-way limped pots in FR, much less 6m. You're sitting in the BB ready to fold total crap, but no one will raise you off it. The flop gives you a nice combo hand. Of course you're gonna bet it.

We also knocked another 4-5% off the limping and flatting ranges, discussing where to raise and where to fold. He's getting it, and he started fixing it before I watched him. Most of the passive preflop stuff is from the first 12k hands, imo. I would think more recent search parameters would look different.

I will also point that before the cheating scandals and merge, I played on UB and Absolute which, though owned by the same company, hadn't merged their player bases, yet. UB was agro, Absolute was passive. That was just the "group think" the two different herds of donkeys shared amongst themselves and passed on to newly birthed donkeys who joined up. I was playing the same way preflop on both sites (I didn't know any other way, and couldn't even spell the word adjustment), and my stats were strikingly different. I ran like 16/13 on UB and 20/12 on Absolute over 25k hands on both sites.

I'll add mine too.

Major heater from about 7k til about 14k

10NL
7.68bb/100 hands

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/r...raph-April.jpg

IOPQ.

At the start of 5nl i was like 28/8 or maybe 30/12 ish. More recently i'm like 22/15 so that number will be an average over time. I have been learning hand over fist from the start of 5 to now, so best not look at my stats as an 'average'.

I was open limping UTG a month ago!

IDEA ALERT: I think bankroll management should factor in downswings a bit more. I think for me, as i progress i want to say, not just 30 buy-ins but: 20 + 10 for variance. See, this way you get rolled and psychologically KNOW you can deal with a big downswing. You're not taken off guard.

Just like how Sugarnut from grinderschool says when you want to really start experimenting with 4betting, you need to write off about 3 buy-ins because you'll be stacking off a little light.

Just my thoughts on fine-tuning BRM.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/999/graph4.th.png

Weeeee swongs.

iopq, what's your vpip/pfr?

Nice work wonderland! Way to keep your head on straight. If you wanna set up a sweat of YOU watching ME this time, I'd be down for that. I'm free tomorrow (I gotta grind 4k hands tomorrow) so if you want hit me up on skype any time, I'll probs be grinding most of the day.

I'll also post my monthly graph in here after I finish those 4k hands, since the month technically ain't over! ;)

Good work sasquatch! Looks like ur doing well dude, and ugh Pig_Vomit you're graph makes me want to barf. HATE swingy months, but looks like you ended on the beginning of another upswing so thats good!

Later peeps will post in less than 19 hours.

Gosh pig vom, swingy, like bart simpson squared. Least you're up from the start :/

Dranger, lord, getting sweat requests! i'm still just a baby though! but it's still good to discuss. Get on skype around mid day ish and i'll see if i can find you. I don't grind at those times anymore (mid day eastern US, 5pm ish UK time) coz they unprofitable for me. So i think i'm free for an hour.

Although i reckon i'll be the one doing the learning!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lucothefish

iopq, what's your vpip/pfr?

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no clue at the moment, probably 22/18 or something like that

Wonder,
Start an OP... really.
I like reading your posts, even when you are whining. :lol:

Bart Simpson is so -EV :wink:

Dranger,
Thanks. It wouldn't look so good if I had added my second 25NL semi-shot in there from the first week of April.

Quote:

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Wonder,
Start an OP... really.

---

ok, fine, everyone's been asking me to do that lately. Just, where and how? do i start a blog thing on FTR or elsewhere? little help?

cheers.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...tions-f54.html

gl.

oh my god, wordpress.... so complicated. Maybe leave that for another day.

No no no, not wordpress. Just go into the section (in the Poker Forum Index) and scroll down til you see FTR Blogs and Operations. Start a new topic in there, and ta-dah! Blog/Op.

Ok, got mah 40k hands done! 4.2k hand day SHIP IT!!!

Here it is:

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9385/aprilo.th.png

+$369 Cash games 2nl, 10nl (I'm negative in 25nl :()
+$45 in donkaments
+$10 in prop bet for hands

Total: $424 SHIP IT

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8566/aprilgraph.jpg
first 1200 hands tried moving to 10NL FR lost ~$14 and moved back down to 5NL and sorted my game out a bit

Play more hands sir.

+$24

Pretty shitty month, but I learned alot and I'm ready to crush the games in May.

Beginning of the month was bad play, I just wasn't playing good poker. My head wasn't in the game and I was auto-piloting. I started to get my shit together though, though I started running pretty bad and obviously didnt play too good either, lol.

This is a combo of 10nl and 25nl, the jumbo swings are 25nl and the smaller are 10nl of course.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9595/april2009e.png


Still ran 5bb/100 overall which includes losing money at 25nl. Next month will be better.



-$20ish in donkaments, so I'm basically even. Oh well I hit SilverStar!

dranger nice comeback from the swing swong

ty sir, i love to luckbox my way back to the +$ :)

Ooo ooo. My turn. Actually, wait, my month sucked. I learned that tilt is bad and that I should avoid it at all costs (I should have known that, no?). But seriously, I got slapped in the face by tilting away my roll and will hopefully never do it again. I hope for a better May!

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/6314/photobum.jpg

Wow BooG, no more tilting! Some pretty good graphs so far.

As for me:
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9...09winnings.jpg


Pretty pathetic volume, but I was really busy with school and a week from now I'll be grinding a shit ton.

Also I have no idea where that line through my graph came from but fuck it.

I thought some of y'all might find this interesting. Here's my May graph from 2008, when I sucked really bad at 10nl and 25nl specifically, and poker in general.

http://xs139.xs.to/xs139/09185/apr08803.jpg

Here's April 2009, my first "real" 1k month, with $1.2k including $275 rakeback. I dropped 1.5 BI's in the last half hour of April at 100nl, or my actual winnings would be north of 1k. So that's still a goal of mine.

http://xs139.xs.to/xs139/09185/apr09342.jpg

I thought I'd include my stats and some explanation. I was up and down at 50nl, dropped back to 25nl not because of bankroll but because I had a HORRIBLE March, lots of spew and some variance. I had been playing FR, but I have always preferred 6max so I switched to that in March, but really sucked (down $500). I got my 6max game together at 25nl thanks to a heater, moved back up to 50nl where the heater continued and with enough roll recovered, took my first shot at 100nl. Thanks to positive variance, I'm doing OK at 100nl. :P

Here are my April 2009 stats.

http://xs139.xs.to/xs139/09185/apr09stats442.jpg

This post is mostly for Wonderland, who is interested in moving up and possibly going pro some day. I'm not going pro ever, probably, but my last few months might encourage some of the microgrinders around here, especially when you realize I was right where y'all are until September 2008. So here's my winnings summary for the last 10 months (pretty embarrassing, some of it):

http://xs139.xs.to/xs139/09185/10months733.jpg

If you'll look at Aug/Sep, you'll see I was just plain awful. I had totally lost my way with poker and couldn't even beat 10nl, despite having won 100 BI's at that level lifetime. BJaust called me out in the "Thoughts about beating the micros" Thread 6, and on September 21st, my game turned around. I began working, really working on my game. I mean really, really, really working. December was my first 1k month, but only because I was grinding the Full Tilt $600 initial deposit bonus.

Now, don't think I'm great at poker. Most of April's winnings are heater-supported. I've played well for long stretches, but I've also spewed my share. I want to be VERY CLEAR: I'm not a winning player at 100nl, yet. I'm just barely hanging in, hoping for some rakeback help and a long enough delay of the eventual negative variance so I can get a foothold and have the bankroll to ride it out. If I lose 10 BI's at 100nl, I'm at my stop-loss and will have to move back down. Just like some of y'all trying to get traction at 10nl or 25nl, I'm right there with ya.

The hardest part is having the discipline to sit down at the computer or with a pad of paper and work on ranges, think about hands, review sessions, find leaks, figure out (on your own!) how to plug leaks. Just work at it. Learn what work works. And do it every week, after every few sessions win or lose.

I don't know much about not sucking at poker, but I know this, and I hope y'all with think about it. I would have been at 100nl sooner if I had simply played A game poker only, ditching any session where I was exhausted, tilty, distracted, depressed or otherwise "off." And the rough patches would have been shorter had I focused more on learning how to play poker than what my current win rate or bankroll was.

Hope this helps some of y'all look forward and plan for success.

Good luck at the tables!!

Well done to Keith and his graph. Good stuff.

And well done to Dranger for completely covering that loss AND hitting his hands. Back to 25??

Nice post Robb, thanks for helping me and other micro grinders, it's fucking diamond, what an example to set for community spirit. Dude, what happened in march? that looks sore! The good thing about your losses is that you're able to own them, seems like a self discipline thing. Better that than to be playing your A game and losing hand over fist!

I played my first sesh @ 10nl (second shot) last night. Won just over a buy-in in one hour coz players were actually worse than 5 for a while. Like FULL ON calling stations e.g. calling a 3bet with shit, then still calling 3 streets with 3rd pair. Thing is... when those players effed off, they were ALL replaced by 18/10 tags. So that was disturbing.

Come on heater... traction, what a great term, that's what i'm hoping for this shot at ten. Start tables and get a couple of buy-ins and hold... hold.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wonderland

Thing is... when those players effed off, they were ALL replaced by 18/10 tags. So that was disturbing.

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Yeah, other players table select too. Thats why its important to continually evaluate your table selection, not just initially.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wonderland

Nice post Robb, thanks for helping me and other micro grinders, it's fucking diamond, what an example to set for community spirit. Dude, what happened in march? that looks sore! The good thing about your losses is that you're able to own them, seems like a self discipline thing. Better that than to be playing your A game and losing hand over fist!

---

March...I've sort of blocked out those nightmares. Oddly, in late February, I had this major leap forward in terms of estimating opponents' ranges. I got WAYYYY better at thin value reads and bets. That had two consequences. First, it's higher variance, since you're behind more when betting/raising on the turn/river. It's also ++EV overall and generally made me a more difficult opponent for my opponents to take on, since I was so much more aggressive (correctly) late in hands.

Well, that went fine for a while, improved win rate, blah, blah. Then I lost focus, played tired (I worked a ton, huge stress for a while there), and was just spewing, TELLING myself it was thin value when it was only a desire to bet, bet, bet. I lost a few BI's, tried to refocus, hit a couple of cooler hands which caused tilt and more spew and then spiraled on down until I couldn't tell what thick value was. Oh, yeah, and the worst of it was a - 10 BI session at 50nl that was like two hours. I totally get the doomswitch idea now. I felt like I couldn't touch the computer without paying $200 in coolered-then-tilt tax.

So I mostly quit playing for two weeks during which I worked 90 - 100 hours each week. When I came back, I was better, but rusty. So my game stabilized for like 2k hands at the end of March, and April began with me trying to recover from exhaustion, ease past another 60 hour work week or two, and just grind.

That's why I went down to 25nl. I wasn't sure of my game after the period from March doomswitch through two weeks off into the first week of April. I thought I was playing well, but the swings were still there. So I dropped down to 25nl, had a nice joy ride, then grabbed that heater and rode it to 100nl.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wonderland

Come on heater... traction, what a great term, that's what i'm hoping for this shot at ten. Start tables and get a couple of buy-ins and hold... hold.

---

Still, don't be afraid to commit some chips. I think you'll find it interesting when you look at my 25nl, 50nl, 100nl stats from April that my game is pretty consistent at all three levels in terms of aggression, 3betting, etc. But at 100nl, I'm tighter. The way to "turtle up" for a shot a new level imo is to play good solid starting hands from all positions, and then fire away post flop since your range is strong and your cards generally are live. The worst thing to do is to get weak-tight in big pots. Which is the major reason I lost so much at 25nl when I took those failed shots at it last Spring and Summer.

After the turtling - you can start opening up from LP first, getting back to stealing 30% +, then finding more good spots to play. But your post flop game just HAS to be solid and aggressive to win.

Cash Games followed by SNGs. +$320 total with a little bit of rakeback. So $10 to $557 in two months.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6671/46560773.jpg

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4523/47535190.jpg

Well here's a snap shot of my month. I was really surprised to find that I played everyday except for the 7th. Most were one or two hour sessions although a couple times it was just a real short session. Overall I am happy with my progress and hope to coninue.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...vic/april1.jpg

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...aprilGraph.jpg

I had really hoped to be able to play last night and finish the graph on a more upward tip but ended up working till almost midnight.

Good luck to all in the month of May!

Outlaw and HarleyGuy, you guys seem to have done well this month. HarleyGuy, bah, don't worry about the dip at the end, look at the whole graph and relax.

Robb, you do realise you have your own folder now in my poker directory lol. Having to paste all the gold you write into one place coz it's a) long b) valuable and c) difficult to take into my micro brains in one go. So i'm going to study your out pourings and come back to you with specific questions. Again, thanks a million.

I'm really concerned about these sudden impacts that we all get out of nowhere, it is just like a downswing virus. What the hell is it... it's so unpleasant. See now i have to factor in those things, i naively thought that graphs just go: up up up down up up up down etc. as long as you're nice and comfortable at your stake. But the best of us can have hideous: down down down down down up down down down ... periods across tens of thousands of hands. It's fine as long as they don't sink the boat as it were, but it's especially harsh when trying to go up or trying to stay up, really fucks with one's progress.

So from now on, i'm just factoring in 10 buy-in downswings per stake. I think it's the only way. The main thing is to make sure we survive them coz one day when we're all playing 100nl it'll be safe to say we've 'made it' to the first main plateaux of earning potential. And we have survived the swings to get that far.

Looking back on my breakeven stretch i feel a little humbled now. But from this far up 'the mountain' i never know what the fuck is around the corner and how big the beast will be if and when it rears it's head. Fuck.... poker can be so intense :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wonderland

Well done to Keith and his graph. Good stuff.

And well done to Dranger for completely covering that loss AND hitting his hands. Back to 25??

Nice post Robb, thanks for helping me and other micro grinders, it's fucking diamond, what an example to set for community spirit. Dude, what happened in march? that looks sore! The good thing about your losses is that you're able to own them, seems like a self discipline thing. Better that than to be playing your A game and losing hand over fist!

I played my first sesh @ 10nl (second shot) last night. Won just over a buy-in in one hour coz players were actually worse than 5 for a while. Like FULL ON calling stations e.g. calling a 3bet with shit, then still calling 3 streets with 3rd pair. Thing is... when those players effed off, they were ALL replaced by 18/10 tags. So that was disturbing.

Come on heater... traction, what a great term, that's what i'm hoping for this shot at ten. Start tables and get a couple of buy-ins and hold... hold.

---

Wonder,
You should put this in your OP. Oh Wait, you still don't Effin have one :evil:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...94.html#878709

fine, i dun a blog. Hope you awl enjoy it. I shall try my best to entertain as well as detail happenings.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wonderland

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...94.html#878709

fine, i dun a blog. Hope you awl enjoy it. I shall try my best to entertain as well as detail happenings.

---

:clap:

'bout time

Never done graphs in here before, so let's see here...

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2278/april.jpg

Ok, so what a lousy finish huh? This is my first month putting in some serious time at the cash tables, May will be my first month 100% ring games.
May Goals
- Achieve SilverStar
- Winrate of 5+BB/100
- 20k+ hands (I'm a busy guy, we'll see if I can do it)

I was concerned that I had just ran well at the beginning and that my game actually was crap. Well this gave me confidence in the fact that my game, while not great, is NOT crap. Check this out...
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6721/evai.png

Quote:

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May Goals
- Achieve SilverStar

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UK promotion is 250 FPPs to get silverstar status so consider emigrating :lol:

Quote:

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- Winrate of 5+BB/100
- 20k+ hands (I'm a busy guy, we'll see if I can do it)

I was concerned that I had just ran well at the beginning and that my game actually was crap. Well this gave me confidence in the fact that my game, while not great, is NOT crap. Check this out...

---

yikes , that must have been painful

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robb

I don't know much about not sucking at poker, but I know this, and I hope y'all with think about it. I would have been at 100nl sooner if I had simply played A game poker only, ditching any session where I was exhausted, tilty, distracted, depressed or otherwise "off

---

i should be at 1knl by now.....

one brief thing from an "outsider" to NL games these days. regarding all the pf limping and giving of implieds at ubermicros, LIMP WITH THEM.

a 1:.5 ratio in vpip/pfr should be fine (while you learn post flop poker). a 1:.75 ratio guarantees you squat if your post flop game sux and the donks are cold calling all day. the vpip/pfr ratios can be very much overrated by stat junkies. they are not an automatic formula for winning.

in fact, they indicate how much you like to fold to big 3bets.

Month started off pretty good at Pokerstars(top stats). Moved most of the roll over to FTP to clear the bonus and have been playing crappy(bottom stats). -8 BI session last night while trying to 20 table during happy hour 3x points :wall:
Hands: 60804
+406.74

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...23/Capture.jpg

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...ryce23/ftp.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chopper

one brief thing from an "outsider" to NL games these days. regarding all the pf limping and giving of implieds at ubermicros, LIMP WITH THEM.

a 1:.5 ratio in vpip/pfr should be fine (while you learn post flop poker). a 1:.75 ratio guarantees you squat if your post flop game sux and the donks are cold calling all day. the vpip/pfr ratios can be very much overrated by stat junkies. they are not an automatic formula for winning.

in fact, they indicate how much you like to fold to big 3bets.

---

Your ratios are tilting me. Why can't you say 2:1? 1:.5 wtfff?

Glad to see you back in the BC again, tho.

Man, I wish I would've griped about my variance on here sooner (not really - don't believe in complaining), I posted this afternoon - honestly the first complaint I'd written anywhere and tonight the pendulum swung back hard in my favor. I'm glad May is here, my new graph is going to be pretty!
:)

Can't get my graph to upload but here we go:
11,949 hands
-$10 prop bet (stupid 12,000 hand goal)
+$51.83 cash games (all in EV has me at +95.32)
+$90 tourn games

+131.83 for the month

can someone point in the direction of somewhere that tells me how yo post full images not just smaal ones ???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marbleboy

can someone point in the direction of somewhere that tells me how yo post full images not just smaal ones ???

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depends on image hosting server site - usually they have forum codes (and html code) for imbedding available after you upload pics - the small ones are links to images w/ thubnails.

The code looks something like this:

http://xs139.xs.to/xs139/09185/apr08803.jpg

I use xs.to - lots of guys here appear to use image shack.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kbryce23

while trying to 20 table during happy hour 3x points

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um, were you really 20-tabling on full tilt?

My maximum table limit is 18 :((((99999

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daven

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kbryce23

while trying to 20 table during happy hour 3x points

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um, were you really 20-tabling on full tilt?

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Whatever. Thought it was 20. while trying to play as many tables as fulltilt would let me.

woww wonderfuli