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looking for some discussion opening ranges with limpers in 2 example situations...
do we adjust our opening ranges when we have limpers? or do 4x +1 with our entire opening range...
If I typically open with 22 in the cuttoff, what is the correct way to play it if UTG & UTG+1 both limped?
same situation, but I am in the BB...
also, whichever way we play this, what is our plan on a missed flop in both situations?
lets say this is 50NL 6-max
-This is very opponent dependent and I adjust my range depending on the oponent's postflop tendencies. If he's pretty weaktight I'm isolating wider since our post flop fold equity is higher.If he doesn't like to fold i narrow my range quite a bit since I will actually have to hit a hand to continue most of the time.
-22 with 2 limpers and position "I" would limp behind and build a pot postflop if I gin. But I was reading a post by BigSpenda who said "It's kinda hard to mess up in postion" so raising could also be a viable option.
In the BB just check since it will be hard to play out of postion against resistence without a set.
22 in that position is just going for the set so limp behind. If you think you can finish it there though raise it up. A c-bet will take it down if the board hits low too depending on the opponents.
Here are a few thoughts:
Bet Sizing - The 4xbb + 1bb per limper is intended for just this. If you are opening 4x without limpers, it makes sense to increase your raise size where there are limpers. This is because with every limper the amount of money in the pot increases, therefore if your raise size is static, then the odds to make a call gradually increase for individuals left to act behind you.
Raising Range - Limping is generally a pretty weak/bad play to make. Especially open limping. And it's generally indicative of a relatively weak range. Therefore, there is a good likelihood that the individuals limping will either limp/fold relatively often, or limp/call, and then check/fold the flop when they miss. It is because of this, isolating limpers is relatively profitable. I isolate limpers with a relatively wide range because of this fact. However, obviously you don't want to disregard position, and other important concepts, but keep in mind their range is usually weak, and the dead money in the pot makes your raises have to work less often to be +EV.
Hands like small pps, suited connectors are less ideal to isolate limpers with. These type of hands play well in multiway pots, and perform better when the implied odds are greater. Therefore, limping behind with a hand like 22/67s is likely going to be ideal, so that when you hit your hand you can have a strong hand (like a set or straight/flush) that plays really well in a multiway pot. Hands like KT, KJ, etc don't play as well in multway pots, and therefore are less ideal to limp behind with, and usually benefit as the type of hands you should isolate with.
Regarding position and what ranges to open from there. Keep in mind that it's always easier to play in position, rather than out of position. So as always you want to play a tighter range OOP than IP. This also applies to isolating limpers as well. So hands like 22 in the BB, I don't think I would ever consider raising PF. The same goes for most small pps, suited connectors, small Axs, etc type hands.
And as far as playing postflop, keep in mind that with more people seeing the flop the likelihood of someone having a strong hand increases. So on average you need a stronger hand to bet/raise/call, etc. So the frequency with which you cbet is likely to decrease.
Well, hitting a flush with your pocket ducks isn't usually a hand that plays well in a multiway pot. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
But everything else you said is right.
Oh wow. I limped my ducks in last night for all the reasons mentioned above :D
Flopped the set, turned quads, stacked a guy with an ace high flush. Happy days.