Two 50NL Folds

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03-18-2009, 12:40 PM
kmind

Two 50NL Folds

1. This guy was a 7/0 but only after 20 hands. On the flop I put him on AK/AQ/any PP. When he checks the turn I discount an overpair because I would image he would double barrel it with me just calling. Once the 8 hits I think he'll either pay me off with a random overpair that he just got passive with or will mostly fold. When he raises though all I can think is "dammit maybe he does have QJ/better set because those should be the only hands that raise me on this river". So yeah I have to kind of go against my original read based on the river action.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($58.75)
Hero (BB) ($50.75)
UTG ($50)
MP ($48)
CO ($50)
Button ($83.60)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
1 fold, MP bets $1.75, 3 folds, Hero calls $1.25

Flop: ($3.75) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $2, Hero calls $2

Turn: ($7.75) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks

River: ($7.75) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $6, MP raises to $25.75

2. In this hand villain was pretty competent and was playing 26/22/3 over a small sample of around 100 hands. CO was also pretty competent and stole a good amount. The thing is that SB was 3betting around 8% so I think he has a pretty tight range when he just flats preflop. I put him on a mid PP and some broadways that do not include AK and sometimes AQ. I was going for a c/c on the flop as I imagined this flop would be one that the CO would cbet almost always. The turn weirds me out because I have TPTK with a good flush draw and am getting c/r so I put him on maybe AdJd/KdJd/JdTd/at the time I put him on somehow a set but I highly doubt that due to sizing and preflop/QxJd/KdQx. There's probably some other combos I am missing. Anyways, I elect to flat with good odds. My plan on the river is to call a smallish-half pottish bet but anything bigger would definitely seem like a value bet and never a bluff because I think he'd get somewhat scared and if he did bluff he'd most likely make it smallish to fold out everything in my range that does not contain a diamond.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($64.50)
Hero (BB) ($71.50)
UTG ($18.35)
MP ($59.90)
CO ($50.75)
Button ($83.60)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
2 folds, CO bets $1.75, 1 fold, SB calls $1.50, Hero calls $1.25

Flop: ($5.25) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($5.25) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4, 1 fold, SB raises to $10.50, Hero calls $6.50

River: ($26.25) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets $22
03-18-2009, 12:58 PM
IowaSkinsFan

1: Call
2: Fold
03-18-2009, 01:20 PM
griffey24

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

1: Call
2: Fold

weird... I was actually going to say the opposite.

1. Probably call, but I can still see fold since the nuts is definitely in your range and with your bet sizing on river you seem strong. His sizing also seems strong and is trying to own you.

2. I feel like I call here because he could be spazzing out on four flush board, and can also be value betting worse here.
03-18-2009, 01:25 PM
Alexos

Both seems like folds..
03-18-2009, 01:37 PM
Alexos

First one just seems like value townage given betsize, we have blockers for 8T/89 and i dont think he spazzes enough or "reps the straight" to make this a call

Second one is sort of the same, I don't really see his spazzing enough with air or value betting worse flushes on river...
03-18-2009, 01:39 PM
Renton

i would call both, and obviously c/f the flop in hand one
03-18-2009, 01:43 PM
Renton

reasons:

1: we lose to exactly QJ, which should normally bet turn

2: he's unlikely to flat call with many Axdd hands preflop given your reads.
03-18-2009, 01:43 PM
kmind

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

and obviously c/f the flop in hand one

yeah
03-18-2009, 03:03 PM
JL

In number 2 your hand is basically a bluff catcher, so the Q:d: = 3:d: here.
I really don't think villain is near potting the river with The T:d: or worse here for value.

So before making this call, I would ask myself if I would call here with just the 3:d:.
03-18-2009, 03:12 PM
Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by JL

In number 2 your hand is basically a bluff catcher, so the Q:d: = 3:d: here.
I really don't think villain is near potting the river with The T:d: or worse here for value.

So before making this call, I would ask myself if I would call here with just the 3:d:.

not quite, we block Qd
03-18-2009, 05:11 PM
griffey24

Hand 2 - I really don't think Qd = 3d. People do lots of weird things on four flush boards. If someone was raising a low flush on the turn they might stubbornly bet JdTd, 8d9d type hands on the river. I've seen people turn made hands like two pairs into bluffs here even.

Does he spaz out 33% of the time on river.. tough to say.. prob a read based decision.
03-18-2009, 06:59 PM
bjsaust

People still want value from their 9Ts type sometimes there too.
03-18-2009, 09:34 PM
nutsinho

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjsaust

People still want value from their 9Ts type sometimes there too.

wtf u talking about
03-18-2009, 10:42 PM
bjsaust

In hand 2. If they checkraised turn with a smallish flush, they'll still bet river again quite often even though the fourth diamond hit. I guess kmind says this opponent is fairly competent so less likely, but I dont think we can totally discount it.
03-19-2009, 04:02 AM
minSim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

i would call both, and obviously c/f the flop in hand one
03-19-2009, 07:01 PM
bjsaust

Why do we c/f the flop in hand 1. Arn't we calling 77-JJ type hands there with the intention of c/c'ing a lot of flops? We only have a 20 hand sample size v's villain. I guess it being an EP raise instead of LP changes our line?
03-19-2009, 07:20 PM
AFchung

hand 1 = spewy. c/f that flop. if you were in position you could try to float, but we're OOP here so it looks like a good spew of chips. i'm looking just to set mine here

hand 2 = fold
03-19-2009, 09:58 PM
markz168

1..fold, look like staght to me..
2..I would call, gotta see if he got Kd..
03-19-2009, 10:11 PM
oomike01

What about hero raising more in hand 2, or raising flop? y not? I would call no.2. Like a Q flush.
03-20-2009, 12:42 PM
kmind

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Why do we c/f the flop in hand 1. Arn't we calling 77-JJ type hands there with the intention of c/c'ing a lot of flops? We only have a 20 hand sample size v's villain. I guess it being an EP raise instead of LP changes our line?

I stopped calling a lot of flop cbets with PP in situations like this. This flop still kind of hits his range. There are a ton of turn cards he can put pressure on me as well. I think having JJ is different because it basically discounts him having JJ as well as like QJ/JT and gives him slightly more of a chance to have a smaller PP. This is probably not completely right.