Fold JJ Preflop?

Viilian is 8/3 over 300 hands. Would it be a bad idea to just fold my JJ preflop since he is raising UTG or can I play for set value since I know he has a big hand? Do villians this nitty ever raise AQ/AK type hands UTG? Also is flop call bad and should I have bet the river?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($7.15)
UTG ($6.67)
Hero (UTG+1) ($5)
MP1 ($9.95)
MP2 ($2.95)
MP3 ($9.38)
CO ($10.50)
Button ($11.77)
SB ($3)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
UTG bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.20, 7 folds

Flop: ($0.47) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.07) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
UTG bets $0.45, Hero calls $0.45

River: ($1.97) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $1.97 | Rake: $0.05

I wouldn't fold JJ preflop, he might have had QQ+ but what if he has AKs? Both deserve a pretty sizeable raise PF and JJ is ahead still.

why do we call 2 streets unimproved post flop if we are calling pre flop for set value?

what is his range preflop?
what is his range postflop?

Valuebet the river

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

Valuebet the river

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srsly? wtf.

name me one hand that an 8/3 UTG raiser is calling a vbet on the river with here that we beat.

ONE HAND SIR?!?!?!?

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Originally Posted by sil693

why do we call 2 streets unimproved post flop if we are calling pre flop for set value?

what is his range preflop?
what is his range postflop?

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Calling all the way is what I was uncomfortable with. I think his preflop and postflop range is jj+ Is it even worth calling for set value with him being so tight I doubt I would even get much out of him if I do hit my set.

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Originally Posted by Kbryce23

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Originally Posted by sil693

why do we call 2 streets unimproved post flop if we are calling pre flop for set value?

what is his range preflop?
what is his range postflop?

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Calling all the way is what I was uncomfortable with. I think his preflop and postflop range is jj+ Is it even worth calling for set value with him being so tight I doubt I would even get much out of him if I do hit my set.

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If his range is AA/KK/QQ then set mining is obviously fine. If the flop comes Jxx - bingo.

What I was hinting at, is that if we are setmining here, its because we estimate his preflop range to be AA/KK/QQ. Therefore, when we miss our set, why do we call 2 streets??

Its almost like you're "widening" his range postflop because there are no overcards to your pair.

I think I explained that pretty shitty. But do you see what I mean?

Meh on the flop call. Fold the turn.

would the opponent check QQ-AA on the river?
:lol: maybe he put you on an 8
whats an 8 vpip range like
TT-AA, AJs-AKs AQo/AKo KQ

its the 3 thats the important stat here being the number of hands he raises preflop and its over 300 hands .Then factor in that he's UTG so should be at the tightest part of his range .3% comes out roughly 99+,AKs

If c-bet % is high enough, I guess calling the flop is fine. Turn is an easy fold imo.

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Originally Posted by oskar

If c-bet % is high enough, I guess calling the flop is fine. Turn is an easy fold imo.

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Cbet is 33%

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Originally Posted by clvacva

would the opponent check QQ-AA on the river?
:lol: maybe he put you on an 8
whats an 8 vpip range like
TT-AA, AJs-AKs AQo/AKo KQ

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yes this opponent can check QQ-AA on the river, hes card scared as hell.

Would you normally 3bet this against a 14/11?

I lay down pre-flop. However, once I call. I keep the pot as small as possible. I am not giving anymore money away if I know I am behind and calling for set value.

Lefty

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Would you normally 3bet this against a 14/11?

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Yes

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Originally Posted by Kbryce23

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Would you normally 3bet this against a 14/11?

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Yes

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ohhhh really?

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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

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Originally Posted by Kbryce23

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Would you normally 3bet this against a 14/11?

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Yes

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ohhhh really?

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by Kbryce23

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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

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Originally Posted by Kbryce23

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Would you normally 3bet this against a 14/11?

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Yes

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ohhhh really?

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Yes.

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What does your 3bet against a 14/11's UTG open with JJ achieve?

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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

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Originally Posted by Kbryce23

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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

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Originally Posted by Kbryce23

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Would you normally 3bet this against a 14/11?

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Yes

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ohhhh really?

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Yes.

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What does your 3bet against a 14/11's UTG open with JJ achieve?

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If the 14/11 raises with AK or AQ and calls my 3bet I am getting more money in the pot when I am ahead. If I just call and 3 small cards come vilian checks, I bet and he just folds his AK. Doesnt he raise UTG with smaller pp as well.

He raises UTG with smaller pps as well. And your right about the AK/AQ thing. HOWEVER, you are ahead of his small pps, and his AK/AQ has 50% against your range. And he will either b/f if he misses AK or c/f, so you still win against his AK/AQ quite often.

So by 3betting he folds the smaller pps that you beat. He either folds AK/AQ, which you beat, or calls and only puts money in when he is ahead (unless you hit set also). But, you manage to build a bigger pot against the hands that beat you (QQ+).

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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

He raises UTG with smaller pps as well. And your right about the AK/AQ thing. HOWEVER, you are ahead of his small pps, and his AK/AQ has 50% against your range. And he will either b/f if he misses AK or c/f, so you still win against his AK/AQ quite often.

So by 3betting he folds the smaller pps that you beat. He either folds AK/AQ, which you beat, or calls and only puts money in when he is ahead (unless you hit set also). But, you manage to build a bigger pot against the hands that beat you (QQ+).

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I would understand If I was SB and everybody else folded, but since I am UTG+1 there will probably be more callers, and then wont I just be playing my JJ for set value.

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Originally Posted by Kbryce23

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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

He raises UTG with smaller pps as well. And your right about the AK/AQ thing. HOWEVER, you are ahead of his small pps, and his AK/AQ has 50% against your range. And he will either b/f if he misses AK or c/f, so you still win against his AK/AQ quite often.

So by 3betting he folds the smaller pps that you beat. He either folds AK/AQ, which you beat, or calls and only puts money in when he is ahead (unless you hit set also). But, you manage to build a bigger pot against the hands that beat you (QQ+).

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I would understand If I was SB and everybody else folded, but since I am UTG+1 there will probably be more callers, and then wont I just be playing my JJ for set value.

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You could quite possibly get a decent amount of callers. But I'm unsure where you get the idea of you having to sethunt here. It is most likely the opposite and the villains who overcalled are sethunting. QQ+, AK type hands are likely to squeeze, so if you get to an undercard flop (and even some overcard flops), your not going to be in bad shape if another villain or two calls preflop. Yes there will be some flops you have to c/f, but there will be plenty that you can call/raise villain's cbet. And end up winning the pot.

Now on the other hand, if you 3bet and he folds out everything but QQ+, AK (which is a very likely scenario, and some of those hands might 4bet preflop), then you are likely set hunting, OR hoping to win a small pot against a whiffed AK/AQ, and potentially lose a big pot against QQ+.

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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

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Originally Posted by Kbryce23

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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

He raises UTG with smaller pps as well. And your right about the AK/AQ thing. HOWEVER, you are ahead of his small pps, and his AK/AQ has 50% against your range. And he will either b/f if he misses AK or c/f, so you still win against his AK/AQ quite often.

So by 3betting he folds the smaller pps that you beat. He either folds AK/AQ, which you beat, or calls and only puts money in when he is ahead (unless you hit set also). But, you manage to build a bigger pot against the hands that beat you (QQ+).

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I would understand If I was SB and everybody else folded, but since I am UTG+1 there will probably be more callers, and then wont I just be playing my JJ for set value.

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You could quite possibly get a decent amount of callers. But I'm unsure where you get the idea of you having to sethunt here. It is most likely the opposite and the villains who overcalled are sethunting. QQ+, AK type hands are likely to squeeze, so if you get to an undercard flop (and even some overcard flops), your not going to be in bad shape if another villain or two calls preflop. Yes there will be some flops you have to c/f, but there will be plenty that you can call/raise villain's cbet. And end up winning the pot.

Now on the other hand, if you 3bet and he folds out everything but QQ+, AK (which is a very likely scenario, and some of those hands might 4bet preflop), then you are likely set hunting, OR hoping to win a small pot against a whiffed AK/AQ, and potentially lose a big pot against QQ+.

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I get it. Thanks