QQ reraised

Printable View

02-26-2009, 07:56 AM
Danh Bai

QQ reraised

Could have saved a few bb's here by raising to like $3.50, right? Is the c/f ok?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($1.85)
SB ($4.50)
BB ($7.95)
UTG ($2.20)
UTG+1 ($1.75)
MP1 ($15.45)
Hero (MP2) ($10.65)
MP3 ($10.40)
CO ($10.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qh.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qd.gif
3 folds, Hero bets $0.40, MP3 raises to $1.30, 4 folds, Hero raises to $5, MP3 calls $3.70

Flop: ($10.15) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/kh.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/2s.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/js.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $5.40 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $10.15 | Rake: $0.50
02-26-2009, 09:48 AM
settecba

Reads?

why 4bet QQ OOP @10NL?? Standard villains 3bet range is like KK+, AK. Is villain a maniac? Or at least, does he 3bet light?

c/f flop is fine. But the problem with the hand is obviously not flop play
02-26-2009, 10:57 AM
Airles™

If he's not a habitual 3-better, he could have you beat or a pre-flop coin-flip with AK. It's really a tough situation being OOP. Do you have any reads? How tight/loose is villain? I can only see 4-betting this OOP if villain is a real LAggtard. I think your 4-bet was a tad much. You just put in over 50BB pre-flop. If you're going to do that, you might as well just 4-bet shove and hope for the best. But like settecba said, the majority of 10NL players only 3-bet with KK+ and AK. Others add QQ, JJ and AQ.
02-26-2009, 11:08 AM
Danh Bai

I wouldn't say habitual, but he had 3 bet me a couple times earlier when i opened with like AT and AJ and didn't call his raise, so i guess i was looking to play back at him.
02-26-2009, 11:20 AM
Airles™

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danh Bai

I wouldn't say habitual, but he had 3 bet me a couple times earlier when i opened with like AT and AJ and didn't call his raise, so i guess i was looking to play back at him.

Did he ever showdown anything that he 3-bet preflop? If not, you're still in the same predicament as you won't be able to put him on an exact range of hands. If he had Aces (and possibly KK) he would have 5-bet shoved since half your stack was already in. You're probably looking at AK here IMO unless he's getting frisky with a lower pair or KQ-KJ type of hand. This is where having lots of hands on villain really helps, but obviously it's not that easy since there are so many players at these low-levels.
02-26-2009, 12:04 PM
settecba

if hes 3betting light, you should probably just call, not 4bet. Are you 4bet-bluffing?( my guess is youre doing it for value). If villains 3bet range isnt KK+,AK; youre more than likely narrowing it to that with your huge 4bet, when he calls it.
02-26-2009, 12:24 PM
dranger7070

Yes, settecba hit the nail on the head with that last post. Seriously, the only time I will EVER 4-bet QQ PF is if the guy has been 3-betting a lot. It took me a long time to learn not to play for stacks with QQ PF because most of the time people at the lower stakes aren't going to be showing up with less very often.

Next time, just flat with the QQ, and play it fast if no overs come. Obviously, this isn't a no exception rule, but it's worked pretty well for me so far.

c/f is fine on flop.
02-26-2009, 03:34 PM
POKEMONS

A few things:

First off to settecba: I think the whole "3bets at micros are almost always KK+, AK" thing is an incredibly bad thing to assume. In my database of hands over 10NL and 25NL the average 3bet% is 4.9%. While I'm not sure exactly what range of this hands this would exactly correspond too, it is definitely wider than KK+, AK. Also, we should be more inclined to 4bet hands OOP than IP to reduce the amount of post-flop play when we are out of position.

As to the hand itself, I think 4betting this is fine sometimes, but it is really player dependent imo. If you think you can add JJ/AQ to the hands he'll stack off with, this becomes a pretty trivial 4bet/call shove. Of course if you think he's only stacking off with KK+, AK than calling the 3bet preflop is definitely the better option.

However, once you put half your stack in preflop, you pretty much can't fold the flop here. FWIW, I would just shove the flop especially since you should only be 4betting this preflop if you think he'll show up with a hand like AQ/TT in this spot.
02-26-2009, 03:36 PM
GatorJH

4.9% = 99+,AJs+,KQs,AKo
02-26-2009, 03:40 PM
POKEMONS

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorJH

4.9% = 99+,AJs+,KQs,AKo

That would seem about right
02-26-2009, 03:47 PM
settecba

whats the 50BB 4bet calling range in your database?
i suppose youre not assuming this is the same as the 3bet range
02-26-2009, 03:49 PM
POKEMONS

Quote:

Originally Posted by settecba

whats the 50BB 4bet calling range in your database?
i suppose youre not assuming this is the same as the 3bet range

No, which is why I said that we should only be 4betting this if we feel we will get called by TT/JJ/AQ some of the time.
02-26-2009, 07:55 PM
Danh Bai

I think with this guy he does show up with more than KK/AA. I was going to get the rest in on any non K/A flop
02-28-2009, 09:40 PM
okiman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danh Bai

I think with this guy he does show up with more than KK/AA. I was going to get the rest in on any non K/A flop

Even if he's showing up with more than KK/AA here, what will he be willing to call your huge 4-bet with or 5-bet with? Probably KK/AA/AK. That was what settecba was pointing out. Against a player with a wide 3-bet range, you're shutting out the vast majority of his range that you do want to play against with your big 4-bet.